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Champ Weight

Champ Weight

Postby USSA155 » September 21st, 2007, 4:32 am

Mr Hooper,

I competely agree with your opinion on this matter. Acceleration rate is effected at the start of the race, and twice per lap exiting out of each corner. I have actually measured acceraration rates on a srint sled with 2 different riders of close to the same caliber, but a large difference in weight. There was quite an effect in acceleration rate exiting the corner between the two riders.

This rule will help the heavier rider, and may sliightly penelize the light rider, but personally I do not expect this rule change the outcome of most races this season. It is my opinion that the guys that move to the front every weekend are going to do the same with or without this rule. It's not money or rules that make you fast. It's hard work, training, and innovative thinking that really make the difference. If people would stop worrying about this rule, and instead start worlking hard on this seasons equiptment, going to the gym, and designing new innovative sleds, maybe we would see a new batch of guys up front.

Josh Wilson
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Champ Weight

Postby Flatout » September 24th, 2007, 6:25 am

A question to John Hooper. If this combined weight rule is a minor change with little or no effect on the outcome of the race then why was it put in place at all? Wouldn't stability be more important. Also there are 4 corners in a lap. With the heavier guys having the advantage in every corner versus the light guys having the acceleration advantage in only two of the corners then it is obvious that the heavier guys will have double the advantage. There is not a perfect solution but I feel that with this rule you will see a shift to taller heavier drivers winning a disproportionate number of the races. Prior to this rule change the mix was fairly even with small medium and tall drivers winning equal amounts.

Im still waiting for an answer from the different associations to confirm that they are enforcing the rule or not! Why are you all still sitting on the fence about this?
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Champ Weight

Postby Older & Wiser » September 24th, 2007, 7:35 am

Im still waiting for an answer from the different associations to confirm that they are enforcing the rule or not! Why are you all still sitting on the fence about this?
To all Champ drivers and teams. Here at E/R We will be following the rule and the only fair way we have come up with is to weight the sled every time it comes of the Ice! So all the teams need to be prepared because I will not let this slow the SHOW! Down. Yes the SHOW!
So all teams and drivers be prepared to have your stuff running good because we will still have the same limited time between heats,quarters and semis as in the past.

1. If you come off the track light you go home. Just like not taking a green.
2. If you miss your heat of quarter or semi because you were working on your sled after waiting to get weighted it is the same as not taking a green and you go home.

Until we hear different that is how we will handle it in E/R

Todd A.
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Champ Weight

Postby Racefan440 » September 24th, 2007, 8:04 am

Todd A

Thanks for the post
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Champ Weight

Postby mondusmotorsports » September 24th, 2007, 8:54 am


You may want to scale like they do in car racing. Lets say in the heats the top two transfer to the semi's so you then would scale the top three only. If one of the top two is light then the 3rd place sled moves up the position and the light sled then goes to the quarterfinal maybe starts a couple sled lengths back. In the semi's the the top 3 go to the W.C. So scale the top 4 then and the same applies if there is a light sled. This way you don't scale all the sleds and it saves alot of time. You may want to set the scales up outside also like in the infield or someplace else so it goes faster. Also have the scales available so people can weight before qualifying. Just some food for thought.
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Champ Weight

Postby Petawawarace » September 24th, 2007, 9:14 am

What happens when there is another class ahead of the Champ class that are using the scales? Is there going to be a huge lineup for everyone to wait in line for? it doesn't make much sense to weigh every sled. If the 2nd or 3rd last sled in found to be under wieght, is it going to make any difference anyway?

Just curious, but how does the WC qualifying work? First 2 advance from each heat and then how many from each semi? then the LCQ top 2 go to the back row correct?
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Champ Weight

Postby watcher » September 24th, 2007, 9:30 am

thank you Todd for going along with the rule. i too might not agree with it but every organization got one "vote", now we live by how they "Voted" (same as for the 375# rule).

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Champ Weight

Postby Older & Wiser » September 24th, 2007, 9:48 am



The World Championship Snowmobile Derby, 5-D Promotions, has proprietary rights to the rules and format of the World Championship class, and its conduct during annual Derby events.

Submission of Entry

Entrance into the World Championship event is by submission of an entry fee, from time to time, a qualifying fee, and various documentation and waivers. The World Championship Snowmobile Derby has the right to refuse to accept any entry at any time. The entry fee, time trial fee, and any other admissions or fees to the event itself are determined by the World Championship Snowmobile Derby, and may change from time to time. Actual fees will be announced no later than 15 days prior to the actual event. Competitors who enter after the posted entry date may be assessed a late charge in order to compete. No one is allowed to enter once the "time trial" process starts.


The event is conducted under a proprietary mathematical format and is administrated solely by the World Championship Snowmobile Derby and its agents. Initial entry fee/qualifying fee allows a competitor to qualify for the event itself. This qualifying process is by time trial and may consist of as little as one lap, to as many as three laps, on the oval track during a timed run. Depending on track conditions and number of entries, two qualifying attempts may be offered but are not required.

The "Derby" solely determines the actual method of timing.

The grooming of the track during the qualifying process is at the discretion of the "Derby".

If 36 or less qualifiers are entered in the qualifying portion of the event, all qualifiers will be qualified for the next level (the heats). If a competitor does not post a qualifying time, the competitor will arbitrarily be placed in a respective heat in showing a "non-qualifying" status. Competitors who start but fail to complete the time trial qualifying process will be placed into the heats in advance of competitors who did not start the qualifying process at all.

If more than entrants are attempting to qualify, the top 36 will be selected and placed on the grid in accordance with their qualifying time. Anyone, whose qualifying time does not fall into the top 36 qualifiers will be eliminated from the event. Anyone who does not appear at the line to qualify at his/her prescribed time will forfeit that time slot.

The actual World Championship Race is then conducted with the 36 or less qualified competitors.

The competitor's time determines his/her starting position throughout the entire qualifying process including the World Championship final. The competitors cannot change his/her starting position.

Race Elimination

The top 36 or less competitors are placed in a prescribed format and race a series of heats, quarter finals, semi finals, and consolations in order to qualify for the actual World Championship event. Each competitor must take a green flag start in each event in which he/she appears on the grid. Failure to take a start from the start/ finish line will result in elimination from the event. Competitors must present both operator and machine to the starting line in running order. Inoperable machines will not be allowed to be pushed, towed, or conveyed to the line by any other means.

Machines that start a race are allowed to complete that race aided only by the driver, in event a machine malfunctions during an event. The race director has the sole authority to determine whether the competitor must push the machine to the actual start/ finish line, to complete the event, or may consider the attempt to manually finish as placement and request the competitor remove the sled from the track in interest of safety or time constraints.

Each competitor must be able to at least take a starting green flag in each heat he/she is scheduled in, in order to be considered to move forward in the elimination process.

Racers who do not qualify by virtue of finish position in the heats will be eliminated.

Semi Finals

A prescribed mathematical process places racers who qualify from the heats in the semi final events. Derby officials will notify the competitors of grid placement and will require the competitor to be ready to race when called to the line. The top three racers by order of finish who compete in the first three semi final events will be placed into the championship event. Racers who do not qualify for the championship event by order of finish may attempt to qualify through the last semi final of which only one competitor is selected, (first place) and that competitor is also placed in the final event.

Consolation Event

Any competitor who started a semi final event but was eliminated by virtue of position, accident, or mechanical failure may start the consolation event, of which the top two finalists are placed in a second row start in the World Championship event. Any competitor in the consolation must have progressed into the semi final category in order to be considered for the consolation event. Racers eliminated earlier in the process are not allowed to compete in the consolation event.

World Championship Event

The Championship race is then competed with 10 machines starting on the first row and two machines starting on the second row. In the event of a penalty for various infractions during the elimination process, additional machines may be required to forfeit their first row starting position and assume a second row start. In the event of this happening, the front row will start with less than 10 machines and the position will not be filled by a consolation event competitor. The World Championship event is normally 25 laps in duration, but may be shortened at the Race Director's discretion for any reason. From time to time the event may be more than 25 laps but if this were to be the case, the event will be promoted at least 30 days in advance specifying the increased lap count.

Inspection Process - Safety Inspection

Upon entry into the time trial portion of the event, all competitors must present their race machines for pre-race safety inspection. The driver must also present personal safety equipment as requested.

Inspection Process - Technical Inspection

Fuel inspections and tests may be preformed at any time during the event. Weight inspections and verification may be done at any time during the event. The actual technical inspection of the top ten qualifier's sleds will be conducted within 2 hours of the qualifying event. The inspection will be done at the discretion of the Inspector. Each sled that passes inspection will be sealed and officially noted. Drivers/owners of race sleds may request to reassemble their sleds at their own onsite facility but will need to be inspected and sealed after that assembly is complete.

The sleds that qualify for the final from the consolation event will be inspected after the championship event.

The top three positions from the World Championship final will also be required to reappear at inspection to verify seals and fuel.

Any sleds disqualified prior to the running of the World Championship will not result in moving up another competitor into the event. Any disqualification's that take place after the World Championship event will result in the moving up of all competitors scored lower than the disqualified sled in finish position.

The Derby reserves the right to select the class that competes in the actual World Championship event, but will notify drivers and teams at least one year in advance of any change in class. The present class selected for competition is the 440 Champ class, as defined by ISR rules.

Current as of 09/24/2007 3:51 PM
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Champ Weight

Postby The Old Coyote » September 24th, 2007, 9:55 am

I am not a racer, just a fan. Perhaps my logic has gone south, but just how does being taller give someone a noticeable advantage in the corners. I have never seen taller drivers pushing out, away from the sleds in the corners to gain some theoretical extra leverage. It alls sounds like smoke and mirrors to me. This is a serious question. Clue me in.
[blue][b][i]"I solemnly swear I am up to no good."[/b][/i][/blue]
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Champ Weight

Postby TDC » September 24th, 2007, 1:10 pm

[quote=watcher]thank you Todd for going along with the rule. i too might not agree with it but every organization got one "vote", now we live by how they "Voted" (same as for the 375# rule).


How many RACERS voted on this rule?
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