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ER Vintage 440 IFS X QUESTION

ER Vintage 440 IFS X QUESTION

Postby pbarr » March 26th, 2008, 11:54 pm

Todd or whoever:

I am converting one of my 79 Skidoo Snopros back to IFS,from the straight axle that was welded in place.

Can I use Late Model Skidoo Trailing arms and Spindles to make this Retrofit?

I can't see spending a fortune to have someone make duplicates of the 79', as I see no mechanical advantage from the new to the old for this class. I want to use some off a wreck MXZX 02' model that I have.

I will duplicate the Shock towers like the 79 IFS I presently have.

Please reply!

Phil Barr - Clinton, Michigan 517-403-3331
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ER Vintage 440 IFS X QUESTION

Postby maxiracer » March 27th, 2008, 12:10 am

Not sure what to tell you on that one Phil, I was told the 79 chassis I wanted to buy that had a wahl bros front end on it couldn't be raced since it wasn't original configuration. I'm sure somebody will have a hissyfit if the rake is different by a couple of degrees.

So Phil, are you guys going to race with us anymore? I haven't heard from you or Roark since Eagle River.

Max
[b]Bevra Vintage Ice Oval Racing. Old School rules...[/b]
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ER Vintage 440 IFS X QUESTION

Postby Flatout » March 27th, 2008, 1:12 am

Phil I know in ER they are picky in the IFS class but the X class is a little more open. In the EPT there is only one IFS class and as long as the sled is a trailing arm sled and the bulkhead is the same dimensions as the original they will let you race. I know that Devin Fackrel has a 78 and it has either 79 or replica trailing arms and he was allowed to race in both the IFS and X classes. I was disallowed in the IFS class because my stabilizer was not in the original position. Go to www.vintagesleds.com for some heated debates about this.
Good luck...
HG
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ER Vintage 440 IFS X QUESTION

Postby pbarr » March 27th, 2008, 2:05 pm

Maxi, I will answer your question first.
Yes we will run with you guys next year, this year was a year too sort out the next level of Oval Racing.
Roark and I are getting our equipment ready for ER next year, and try to hit some races before ER. Call me sometime 517-403-3331

Howard, thanks for your reply. I do not see any difference in a aftermarket duplicate trailing arm versus a trailing arm today. Finding Vintage 79 Snopro trailing arms are extremely challenging. Infact, when people make clones of complete sleds and still are able to run in the classes they do at ER is absolutely mind boggeling.

I could get deeper on this subject, but Safety too me is paramount. And running 30 year old stuff ( fatigued, potential deterioration ) can create a Safety problem.

I know, our trailing arm fractured at Albright Shores on the 1/2 mile going into turn 3 at 80mph+, that was challenging for my driver. Could have been detrimental or catastrophic. But he is a smart driver and got out of trouble.

Unless we magniflux the entire chassis for imperfections at the speeds we run with the Vintage IFS'rs. We all have to be sensitive to what we need to do to keep things safe but look vintage.

The IFS sleds are building more power today. I know George S.,Wayne Haner, JV and I and others are looking at that 130+hp on these units.

Enough, thanks too all that read this. I hope Todd and the Tech Man from ER is reading this.

Phil Barr
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ER Vintage 440 IFS X QUESTION

Postby that 31 car » March 27th, 2008, 4:41 pm

Mr.Barr and others:
I have refrained from comment on vintage for a long time, but reality is, you guys are on the wrong path. Some friends of mine, good solid people started the vintage deal in our area, and quite frankly, I am sure they are not happy with how it has transgressed. You question the ability to use new trailing arms on the old chassis, spindle angles, mount points, and front end geometry not withstanding. All under the guise of safety, lets see now, safety got you guys extruded skis, gas shocks, trick skid frames, need I continue ? When vintage started it was old guys on old sleds, now it's Champs in old dresses, and ringers on board driving. In 1975 there wasn't 130 hp in some of the tow vehicles, and now you claim the chassis can't take the power. Perhaps you aren't racing Vintage. Five years from now you will all ***** that the sport costs too much and is dying, don't blame the tech guy or Eagle River, you all made it that way. MSD boxes, neat ski's, trick skids, gas shocks, yeah I had all that stuff on my 72 EXT back in the day, I'm sure your Polaris,Ski Doo Chap, or whatever had it too. Don't grumble when it's all over. By the way,how many of you guys know how to set points on a magneto ignition? Any body got a magneto ignition?
On TV they call it a lost art. Remember boys, some of you guys are tuning sleds with laptops, sleds that were built when computers took up whole buildings. What's wrong with this picture. If you like to spend money, and got a young rider, build a real Champ, race the third week of January for the other WC.
Ok I'm done, start the chastising now.
Korinek
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ER Vintage 440 IFS X QUESTION

Postby Flatout » March 27th, 2008, 5:29 pm

Hey Jerry I agree with you. Computers and programmable ignitions should not be alowed in vintage nor should any suspension parts that are not the same dimensions as the original. The bulkhead shock mounts trailing arm mounts and 4 bar mounts sway bar locatoin and chaincase location should all be original unless racing in the x class. What screwed it up was allowing this stuff for a couple of years and then changing the rules. I am rebuilding my battered sled back to original so that I can race both IFS and X classes. Im not a ringer by any means but I have raced this sled for years even when vintage was non existent and the sled was considered "current". My sled has all the original front end components and even has the original rear suspension rails. The shocks are even vintage Morazocci units off an 83 twintrack. Even my motor is a trail sled motor with steel bore cylinders and the old Bosch ignition.
BTW Yes i can set the timing on a breaker point magneto. I havent had to until this year when I raced a 1970 olympic in Eganville. I flipped it in hotlapping 50 yards from the gate. Man those things are a handful!!!
Im one of the "old guys"
HG
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ER Vintage 440 IFS X QUESTION

Postby blackcreek03 » March 27th, 2008, 5:29 pm

gee for once jerry said something worth while instead of bashing cleated tracks over money issues, just my 2 cents!!!
[email]blackcreek03@yahoo.com[/email]
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ER Vintage 440 IFS X QUESTION

Postby WAVEY DOG #26 OSRF » March 27th, 2008, 7:11 pm

Phil
When we were racing those sleds "back in the day" the 1978 or 1979 front ends would not hold up to the banking at Eagle River and at other tracks. U.S.S.A. had to cancel racing at Eagle River in 78 or 79 for the day, so the ski-doo guys could add bracing to there front ends because so many were breaking. These front ends would break where the tie rods connected to the trailing arms. The stock trailing on the IFS sleds will need to be reinforced.
Personally speaking I liked the old Bosch ignitions and I don't think the hp or speeds are much different from 29 or 30 years ago. Those Bosch parts must be hard to find these days? I remember Vessair had a second high speed coil wired and ready to go in the event of a coil failure. Those Bosch ignitions were a little finicky. David
DAVID RIEMENSCHNEIDER
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ER Vintage 440 IFS X QUESTION

Postby pbarr » March 27th, 2008, 11:58 pm

Korinek,

Thanks for your input!

Howard,

Thanks for your input!

Let's see, I believe the answer too my post is to have the Original Trailing arms duplicated and put on the sled!

The IFS X class is like an Open Mod in Drag Racing. Throw your best to a machine and feed it to the Best on the Track and see what your made of. I know from my drag racing days. Winning World Series events in the 800 Open Mod and 1000 Open Mod.

But, guys like Howard, JV, Wayne Haner,Ben,Kurt Kriegs,Zawacki's, Steenerson, and Others that I Don't know yet, keep the Spark in the Sport of Competition for this Ultimate Class. Howard, JV, Haner,Kurt, Zawacki's are some of the Greatest People that I have met at ER. We are the Open Modders if I may call it that, with IFS.

Note: there are other Vintage Class Sleds out there that are absolutely the most remarkable pieces of Art,and Engineering that I have seen since the day. With close to 700 entries at ER. I applaud the World of Vintage Snowmobile Racing.


I thank everyone who participates in our discussion, I know I should be on the Vintage Site, but this site here gives good direction also, because alot of the racers here USE TO RACE THE OLDER STUFF.

Phil
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ER Vintage 440 IFS X QUESTION

Postby pauls650 » March 28th, 2008, 1:17 am

this is not just a ifs problem,it is all of vintage,there is too much stuff done under the flag of safty, i do agree we need to keep a eye on the chassie-stuff,we all know steel does wear out,in the vintage w.c most are leaf spring champ sleds.there is almost no vintage left in vintage racing
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