things to think about !

[Petawawarace]

I'm sure that doesn't help, but usually isn't that just the snow-dust that is plowed off the track to the inside?

[tg190]

What about the possibility of using infrared heaters mouted to the vehicles? Through trial and error they could be adjusted to melt the ice particles missed by the sweepers.

Great topic

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[tifa_5_2000]

im willing to be almost ALL snow dust comes from the studs and carbides. unless snow is falling during the race.

[Petawawarace]

I really think we are going to have to come up with something to mix in with the ice. The worst snow-dust is almost always on the first lap of a champ final. It doesn't get better throughout the race, but the guys start spreading out more and does get a little easier to see. Its that first lap when you can throw a blanket over the top 10. Again, the ice can be clean as a wistle, and the dust is just as bad.

[Spy-Guy 74]

Corn syrup is quite expensive at this time, I can't see it being very easy to lay down unless it was injected into the water at a high temp when applying. I do believe most of the dust is created by the studs and carbides to. Watcher is correct to as snow is lifted by the force the sleds create. You can tell that easily as when the winds are higher, the snow dust clears better out on the track. Most of the time its far worse when theres little wind and the sleds create a swirling wind effect.

I believe at this time brooms are the most cost effective. They don't solve the problem completely but sure help. There's times when the weather is cooler and little wind and the snowdust just hangs in the air as ice crystals. Don't really see a quick fix for conditions like that. Racing in plus forty degree weather would help, but not practical. I watched a cross country race on ice this weekend and the temps were near fifty and they created little snow dust. Of course there traction is way less that what we use too.

[watcher]

i remember back when the Derby ran the 24 hour enduro race (24 hours 24 sleds), the second year about 3:00am Jerry K had a bunch of us sit around the track and report on how we could see the track? i sat in the tower between turn 3 and 4 on the second floor. i could not see the track cause of all the snow dust. remember that this race track times were no where near to what the speeds are in champ. it was snow x, part oval and big holes. i came down to the lower level and could see the whole track, with no problems. the air and wind have a lot to do with the whole problem. it was early morning after sun rise that it finaly clear up and like i said there was no big speed.

watcher

[rotaxracer33]

My $.02

When racing in Late Model 440 on the vintage side of things I have encountered snow dust too but its far less due to only three laps and the speeds are about 2 seconds slower than the champs but with only 3 or 5 laps it's genreally not an issue. Pack racing has something to do with it as well. When five or six sleds of relative fast speeds get together in a pack that's when it becomes and issue.

The solution...broom the track. Icy fines are the biggest issue. Start with none and end with some is always better than starting with some and ending with a snow storm.

The other thing we should bring up is "HOLD YOUR LINE UNTIL THINGS CLEAR OUT!" If we learn anything from any other sport look at NASCAR and restrictor plate racing. Hold you place and line up 'til things sort out and then make place by place moves. This seems like it should apply to all forms and levels of racing. If you don't finish you can't win.

If promoters, track maintenance and designers can help us out it's to develop tracks that will allow for multiple race lines to avoid such narrow race grooves. I realize that the past BJ race had sleds about six lanes wide but the wreck started low and ended in the bales.

Bottom line...broom the tracks. It's lives at stake.

[Kenyon_111indy]

A good idea for you guys in America and out west is to introduce the Formula 340 class like EPT has, we've always had great success with it. I personally think it would be better than having a restrictor plate 500 class, and plus some of the 340 racers can go to Eagle River or Beausejour (I am not in this class anymore as I race champ), but it's more convenient for the kids since they wouldn't be limited to the EPT.
KP111

[bobspears1]

Ok, I see the reasoning posted by all.And I like some ideas,and we need to do it. Been shot down before! Holding your line should have been learned long before now, good point. Shorter picks, slower speeds,another good one. Adding plain water,still not convinced; Introducing heat ? Creating gaps around the perimeter for the air/snow to escape? I thought an economical way would be // take a road compactor,, mount a couple of torpedoe style heaters to it,get it hot keep it hot and use it after or during the plowing and prior to any big number of sleds, race.Maybe 60/40 mix in the rollers...? heck park it on a bonfire partially.Less than jet A,and the other proposals,and built,needing a minor attachment built for the heat source. Keeping the bales from freezing needs to be addressed and we all know that is just plain work. Since urea is out,sadly,then we need to look at enclosing the tunnels and flaps better,plastic might work from the front of track to rear,and down to the ice.

[Dahlke882]

How about a new ski design? Something that would deflect the sno/ice chips back down towards the track instead off up into the air. Would it cure everything. NOPE. But anything would help, and after a year or two wouldnt be anymore then a new set of skis today.

[img]http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u34/yeayammi/50th%20ann%20Beausejour%202012/SDC10091.jpg[/img]