V-FORCE/Moto Tassinari Pro-lite series

[EXTREME113]

Sunday at Valcourt 5th place in pro was a stock motor with good pipes and 34mm... As well for the rest of CPT season top 5 in most races ..

[lynxer]

It is going to be difficult to bring a young racer from an F-500 to full champ speeds in one step...

It is a double edged sword. I remember just a year or two ago some of the Pro Champ teams complaining about young drivers coming into Pro Champ before they were ready and causing some pretty serious accidents. Now it will be even more easy for that to happen. With some relatively expensive motors it keeps the serious guys in the serious class and the weekend racers in their own at reduced speeds. You see where I am going with this. . .

[Spy-Guy 74]

Marti After seeing how the rules are finalized and if there say locked for five years I may have a sled in this new class. It would be run at all the places you have listed, but I will not run more than nine events next year. I believe we will be seeing more events for next year in the mid west, which is good for the sport. At the same time our team will only attend nine events so we may have to pick and choose where to go.

I think it's a stretch to think one of these sleds could crack the top five in a event held in the mid west at this time. Really I don't know if it would be good for the sport if it did happen either, for various reasons. I can't really see this class being able to run in Champ next year either, the combined weight and carbs don't fit within the rules. Champ rules are locked outside of safety issues for the coming year. Stranger things have happened in the past, but can't see how it can be pulled off for next year. That's the Lites running with the Champs If it would happen we most likely would try running champ at a few events, but would make for a very busy day as Champs are run both days in the mid west. From past experiences I do know if you try to make the crew do to much, the whole season becomes less fun! I want to stay involved in the sport for at least 6 or 7 more years, but have always said if it still isn't fun that's the day I'll walk away.

At the same time I would like to support John with this new class, I think it can work in the mid west. Another factor to think about I can see it a lot easier getting some free advice from the champ guys, if your not racing against them. I've been there it's a learning curve for sure, people sort of pointed me in the correct direction on a few things. A small handling tip or a clutch set-up can make a difference of winning or running in the back of the pack. Like they say if it was easy everybody would be doing it!!

[jhooper/HRE]

After further discussions, it looks like this class will be more acceptable to most voters at the ISR meeting if we leave the 34mm carb rule in place so these guys could legally jump into Pro-Champ if they choose.

At this time my plans are to divide the V-Force money among all the Midwest race associations that approve this class {at the ISR meeting} to REPLACE the existing semi-pro Champ class. I will not support any association that plans to offer both because I feel it would only worsen the current situation. John H.

[fast dad]

Just looking again at the weight rule. Most young 16-18 year olds are 130-150 lbs. The 130 lbs kid will need to add 40-50Lbs to the sled making the sled a 450 lbs race sled. (heavier than a F500) The optimum weight will be for a 180-200 lbs driver? How many people will not join this class knowing they will be at a disadvantage by adding 30-50 lbs to the race sled? Don't know? Trying to drive a 380-400 lbs sled VS and 450 lbs sled is a HUGE difference...Also are they weighted before or after the race? Makes a big difference..People will be tuning to the weight as all scales are not the same and you will need to weight in after every practice to make sure you are legal. Just a observation I think needs some consideration.

TJ

[jhooper/HRE]

TJ,
The average Champ sled will weigh around 390 lbs. and driver safety gear weighs around 15 lbs. so that means a driver weighing 175 lbs. or more {in street clothes} would not need to add ANY weight. I don't see a problem.
I know that the AVERAGE young man graduating high school is heavier than this and we want to gear these rules to favor average people so I don't see a problem.
The 130-150 lbs. driver is not the typical size for a young adult and I don't believe kids should be on these machines. John H

[Mr.Pipe]

If you look at the group of riders that typically win Champ races, you would see that they fall into the 165 to 195 weight range. Under the proposed weight rules, as John mentioned, these drivers would add little or no weight to their snowmobiles. So there would be no measurable performance correction between that group, and lets say the 225 lbs racers that feel they are not currently on even ground. The rule would however add considerable weight to the drivers under 150 lbs, that currently seem to be at a slight disadvantage in their ability to muscle the Champ sleds around the track. Please correct me where I could be wrong, but where have the drivers under 150lbs shown a performance advantage?. Now if you add another 20-30, or maybe 40 lbs to some of these light drivers snowmobiles, do you not see the chance that they may get discouraged and not continue racing. ...and what has changed for the heavy drivers feeling they are at a disadvantage to the guys in the 165-195 lbs range that have, and likely will continue to finish at the front of the field....nothing!
A combined weight rule does not solve any problems as I see it, and in fact creates a few new ones.
Do the +200 guys deserve a break? yes, maybe they do, but to add weight to the light guys is not a good solution.
Giving the heavy guys a bit more power by carb size is a more logical solution. At least one worth testing in the upcoming season. For example, if a guy between 200 and 225 lbs was allowed 34.5mm carb bores, and a driver between 225, and 250 lbs was allowed 35mm carb bores, it would give the heavy guy a performance correction vs the racers that are 165, to 195 that currently finish well, while not hurting the light guys that don't seem to currently have an advantage anyway.
I do want close, even racing, I just don't want to make changes that don't solve the problems, and may in fact hurt the sport, or make us lose any racers, or potential new racers considering moving up to Pro Champ.
Darcy

[jhooper/HRE]

Darcy,
I would be fine with your idea of letting heavy drivers use slightly bigger carbs but I doubt it could ever be agreed upon by the voting members. {I hope I'm wrong on this}

Since there is quite a bit of talk about reducing speeds I would prefer mandating 33mm carbs for driver/sled combos between 535 and 570lbs. and combos over 570 use 34mm carbs. This way a small driver could choose to either add a few pounds and run 34mm carbs or stay light and run 33mm carbs.

I still think there are a lot more potential Champ drivers over 200lbs than under 150lbs. that is the primary reason I would like to see the combined weight. John Hooper

[USSA155]

Earlier in this post there was a call for drivers. If this class goes in USSA, I will participate. I know that there are no rules finalized. I saw a preliminary set at the USSA meeting last weekend and I thought I would chime in on a few suggestions.

1. Leave the carbs open to 34mm round slides, or OEM peanuts. It will give flexibility and choice to the competitors, and not immediately force limited sleds who whish to compete in the class out.

2. Leave the left ski open, the left ski style should be a rider choice. Narrow, Wide, Flat, the skis that works for the rider and makes them comfortable, is what matters.

Thanks for the open conversation

Josh Wilson

[Greg Bihner]

We would be all in for this class if rules as proposed are similar and enough drivers commit to running in this class and the purposed payout comes through. As far as the rules.
1. I would for the oem 34mm carbs or 34mm round slide carbs
2. I would for an open ski same as pro champ
3 I would be for the 580 total weight rule also.
4. All other rules mirror champ except the engine rules.

Thanks Greg Bihner