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So much for F500 being affordable

So much for F500 being affordable

Postby Crager » December 15th, 2014, 7:39 pm

Here are new rules for F500 for 2016

Quick change primary legal for this year


http://www.isrracing.org/affiliates/upl ... 202015.pdf
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Re: So much for F500 being affordable

Postby Spy-Guy 74 » December 15th, 2014, 9:19 pm

Crager, you'll be fine without a quick change P-85 clutch. We don't use them on our sleds and we seem to do alright. I think Tom Gara sells new P-85 clutches for about 275 bucks, it's easy to get 125 bucks in a worn out one. Yes a new clutch is better than a old one with seven or eight thousand miles it.

Good Luck this winter and you'll be just fine without a quick change. If our paths cross this winter, be sure to stop by and we can help you out with your clutching
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Re: So much for F500 being affordable

Postby Crager » December 15th, 2014, 9:49 pm

Thanks Spy Guy for the offer I don't have a quick change now nor will I in future and have a very Competitive sled. My problem with these new rules is that it mat discourage new racers from coming out when they feel that that cant be competitive without QC Clutch and Carbon hood . The class has grown in size every year because of the rules it had. Keep adding expensive parts and numbers will decrease.
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Re: So much for F500 being affordable

Postby fast dad » December 15th, 2014, 10:00 pm

When the races start adding addition purse for any class, this being F500, the price of racing goes up...Quick change clutch is nothing more than a regular clutch, makes no performance gains, just easier to work on. CF hoods save money in the long run, they last for many years and even will go threw a hay bail or two and still usable. there is a weight rule anyways...In any and all racing "he who works hardest wins the most"

TJ
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Re: So much for F500 being affordable

Postby jhooper/HRE » December 16th, 2014, 6:53 am

I expect within a couple more years the nitwits voting on these rules will completely ruin this class just like so many others that started out strong.
It seems so obvious to me when you look at the demise of most other classes "IT'S ALL ABOUT THE MONEY"
We could argue forever about how carbon fiber parts and quickchange clutches are not really a big advantage BUT the facts speak for themselves.
Why has F-500 been so popular???
It's because when a new or under funded racer looked at the OLD RULES it was obvious that you can be very competitive without spending much money. IT'S REALLY SIMPLE, The poor guy felt on par with the rich guys.
Yes, TJ has a point, the best racers and hardest workers usually win BUT if the new guy {without a big budget} considering ice oval racing looks at what the WINNING racers are using and sees expensive stuff such as carbon fiber parts and quick change clutches he will usually decide he cannot afford to race with these guys.
IT'S NOT ABOUT ACTUAL PERFORMANCE ADVANTAGES, IT'S ABOUT PERCEPTION IN THE EYES OF A PERSPECTIVE RACER!!
It amazes me that this exact scenario of continuously allowing more expensive equipment in non-premier classes goes on in most forms of racing and somehow these rule makers JUST NEVER LEARN!
NITWITS may be a bit harsh but the TRUTH speaks for itself.
The ONLY rule changes that need to happen in a "spec. class" like F-500 are things that keep the costs to a minimum and safety concerns.
I am not in the mood to argue these points with anyone, you just need to look at snowmobile racing history to see the facts, a person that argues with history is a NITWIT. John Hooper
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Re: So much for F500 being affordable

Postby fast dad » December 16th, 2014, 8:37 am

All you need to do is read the latest post on Ironwood. Pay out for the F500 class will be $1,000.00 Thats why people are stepping up in this class. Not only CF hood, QC clutches, how about you can buy a F500 for $7,500.00 from Wahls? Not sure what John charges for his chassis or sled.

Want to fix it and make it affordable? No pay outs!!! Make it a fun class for low budget racers..

TJ
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Re: So much for F500 being affordable

Postby Spy-Guy 74 » December 16th, 2014, 8:43 am

The rules are set for at least four to five more years, the quick change was allowed as it was a grey area and people were using them already. I hope to see the class to continue to grow, yes it does cost money to race and most likely won't get cheaper either. Have fun, meeting new people are two of the biggest things racing has given me. Trophys and purse money are nice, in the end trust me you'll remember the other things in racing when your done.

I like seeing a purse like this for the F-500 class, people have great equipment put on a good show for the fans. At this time it is the largest class in oval racing and hope to see it continue there too. Here's a offer to anyone struggling with there F-500 this year, come by and we'll help you with your sled. No charge either and we can get you up to speed too
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Re: So much for F500 being affordable

Postby Petawawarace » December 16th, 2014, 9:31 am

I agree with John on how these rules look to new racers, but I also agree with the changes. To the new racer coming in, yes, Quick Changes, Data systems, Carbon Hoods etc will look daunting. But to the experienced racer, these items usually save money, or atleast do not offer a performance advantage, but rather a tuning or maintenance advantage.

I would rather have seen the rules state that Data, Carbon hoods, and QC's are only legal in the PRO F-500 class. Sport and Semi-pro they are not allowed. I know its not ideal having different rules between the classes, but in reality, its not going to stop any of the semi-pro guys from jumping up to pro without the extra goodies. And the guys that really want to run that stuff, and want to run for the bigger purses will do so in Pro. Unfortunately I don't think that is an option now. I also don't think we have to worry about this class going anywhere John. It's been growing steady for a few years now, and I don't think the new rules will deter many new racers. I think the key to success is in some of the clarification of the grey area rules, and proper tech inspection.
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Re: So much for F500 being affordable

Postby jhooper/HRE » December 16th, 2014, 10:07 am

Jeff,
Good points made. Allowing these changes in Pro-F-500 is not so bad BUT allowing these expensive changes to the beginners classes is just STUPID and will only hurt entry numbers in the future. John H.
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Re: So much for F500 being affordable

Postby Flatout » December 16th, 2014, 10:46 am

I think what hurts a class is all the negativity people spread. This class is the best thing that ever happened to oval racing...Period! It has three levels of competition ,sport , semi pro and pro. There are a ton of really good used sleds around and you can buy one for around 500-700.00. Buy a ready made F500 kit from John or make all the parts yourself. A competitive sled can be built for around $3000.00. No motor mods makes it cheap and levels the playing field. The clutch rules should have started out with "no mods allowed" but the rules were written allowing mods. A micro Belmont QC Polaris is just a modded P85 so technically it meets the rules so that's why it crept in. If you buy a Micro Belmont from Wahls it is not much more than a new P85 from the dealer so really not that much more money for the tunability. And yes a screw together when properly set up works just as well. CF doesn't belong in F500 but as FAST DAD says it is an investment. And if you have the money and want to spend it you can find all sorts of ways to spend it even in F500. Some of the teams have 6 figure trailers but its not the amount you spend but how hard you work and how well you build your sled that makes you go fast. Look at the sled Jeff DeJong built. It was built on a shoestring. It was butt ugly but it had a lot of thought and work in it and it was ( is) fast. In the CPT the F500 has the most ever entries of any class in the last 15 years and is still growing. Virtually all the new crop of Champ drivers have started in F500. Some like it there and will complete there career there and hand their sleds down to their kids. An F500 sled is readily sold when you decide to either step up or get out.
Please stop the negativity and promote the positives of this class. BTW I have a good P85 QC for sale....$200.00 CDN
Last edited by Flatout on December 16th, 2014, 1:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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