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observation

observation

Postby fast dad » January 19th, 2016, 8:39 am

I just attended the Chili Bowl Nationals last weekend to see what it was all about, been to ERWC maybe 30-35 times? Needed a change....

Chili Bowl midget race gets 355 entries for 1 class...Most races you only get 20-30 maybe??? Why you ask??

ZERO RULES!!! Only safety rules are in place thats it...Any motor, any chassis, no weight restrictions, no cc restrictions, no fuel restrictions just how racing was all started, RUN what you BRUNG...I will promise, guarantee to cost of racing will be less...WHY??

You will have numerous motor builders, many crafty builder will build sleds that they think will work, and mainly bring out some of the old iron that was not allowed because of todays rules..Many guys will race a ERWC just to race in it, and they all think they are better then the people they watch win the race....

Make the race 25 laps straight, this will help todays sleds as they handle better so the faster bigger motor sleds will wear out drivers....Remember the late 80s early 90s friday night thunder was F3 against twin trackers...Bring back some of the twin trackers!!! If you remember them races just how close and good where they!!!!! real close and real good...ERWC can do this TRL Cup can not...

Just to let you know a midget car that is perfectly legal in USAC won the race, sometimes special to this race cars win too...Not sure if any combo could go much faster or handle better than todays sleds, but would be fun to watch...

Just some food for thought....to make the ERWC race the most important and fun race to watch...No bashing just making some views...

TJ
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Re: observation

Postby Nutty » January 19th, 2016, 10:24 am

My opinion is they should go to outdoor motocross system. Two 20 lap races for the champs and maybe a undercard like two 10 lap formula 500. Keep the Outlaws and the production class. There is just too much dead time in the afternoon for this spectator. Scoring system is the same as motocross which will require starters to try and finish both races.
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Re: observation

Postby that 31 car » January 19th, 2016, 10:53 am

TJ: Any major, but simple, defining rules at the event? Wheelbase, width, etc? How do you control it to keep it a midget show, and not having cars that are open top sprinters, winged modifieds, etc. Gotta have some base rules I would think.
Not fighting you, I like open concept rules, just wondering how they keep it Midget.
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Re: observation

Postby Flatout » January 19th, 2016, 12:11 pm

Zero rules ...I like it! Run watcha brung. Maybe the only rule is 45" wide so you can still line up 10 sleds on the front row.
The second thing would be spec fuel like they did this year. And thats it............
Sure would make it easier to tech 8-)
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Re: observation

Postby Petawawarace » January 19th, 2016, 6:53 pm

TJ, they do have a rule that they must use USAC style bodywork correct? This eliminates any real aero. And the reason they don't have any motor rules is because on that short little track, they can't possibly get enough traction to use all the horsepower.

Good idea in theory, and maybe some of the rules could be loosened up, but it would get extremely unsafe very quickly. I think the champ sleds are good right now. Very close competition.

I agree the show could be better, and the announcers too , but the coverage was fantastic this year compared to years past.
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Re: observation

Postby Spy-Guy 74 » January 19th, 2016, 8:38 pm

TJ It would make for a very interesting Worlds Championship for sure, would make for a higher field of entrants for sure. In my eyes would make it more fair for the larger framed drivers, as I believe most of them would go for the bigger motors.

There's only two things that worry me about the open rules, I like the spec fuel requirement now. At least we all know everything is safe for the driver with the spec fuel, without it I believe we'll see a chemist in a few trailers. Some of the stuff you can put in the tank is simply not safe for humans and should never be allowed!

The other worry is the speed that would be created down the road, maybe not to start with but it wouldn't take long. I'd dare to say at least four to five miles per hour to start with and maybe up to 10 to 15 miles per hour with a little more development for the fellows that can handle those speeds. Not everyone could ride a old F-111 sled back in the day and to do it for twenty five laps leaves very few fellows now too. Mike Houle comes to my mind, Terry Wahl didn't but I believe he could have. A guy like Wojo would try, and he very may well could have too. Not really many others come to my mind

Find a sponsor, let's give it a try next year in Eagle and see how things play out. I guess I wouldn't make this class for the WORLDS CHAMPIONSHIP the first year, but if it takes off year number two would be fine if others see merit in your plan. It would cause a frenzy, tons of excitement, and maybe what needs to be done to revive the sport.

Nows the time to see some other people's opinion on this idea, it's creative to say the least, and thinking outside the box so to speak. That a lone makes me like it!!!

Another idea for a class for Eagle and could bring large numbers right from the get go would let the MIRA boys come over and play with there modified 600 sleds. They're not racing at this time of year, and I think many would give Eagle a shot with there sleds. No not for the WORLDS CHAMPIONSHIP but a premier class that could easily bring 30 sleds if a fair purse was offered to them. Twenty five to Fifty laps would be a cake walk for these fellows too

Something needs to be done for sure, let's start talking
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Re: observation

Postby fast dad » January 19th, 2016, 9:39 pm

Wheel base is open, body work open, there is no tech or rules...bring a sprint car if you like add a wing...track is so short all about the driving and set up, bigger motors are everywhere....I will find the way they spell it out for the entry and post...I see guys racing with half/open face helmets (Kevin Olson)...Swindells cars that have won 5 times,weight was around 700 lbs with a short wheel base..there was a chassis with a VW motor that weight 625...many have smaller rule cells....They get over 300 entries per year...ERWC has some great racing, don't get me wrong, just need more of it...

TJ
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Re: observation

Postby that 31 car » January 20th, 2016, 12:38 am

TJ:
Thank you. I guess I need to see it before I tip over. Wasn't questioning you, just thought somehow they had some sort of equalizer. From reading your answer and other posts, it appears the equalizer is the track size. This I can understand, when my brother and I ran indoor stuff it was the same, reality was we were short on HP, but long on handling, and light on weight. Thanks for the explanation.
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Re: observation

Postby jhooper/HRE » January 20th, 2016, 7:18 am

It works for them because of limited traction and a small race track. If you tried something similar in ice oval racing you would increase speeds by 15 or 20 mph on a track like eagle river. We can easily build engines that would weigh about the same as the current Champ engines but would produce 200+ hp.
The only way a "run what you brung" format could work is by severly limiting traction so the added power would make little difference. It would certainly put on a show BUT SAFETY?? John Hooper
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Re: observation

Postby fast dad » January 20th, 2016, 8:09 am

I am just bring this up for conversation mainly...I agree that they would go faster, but I have to ask how much faster??I know some Champ guys where running 100 MPH at ER this year, the best speed on a twin tracker 440 was maybe 92 MPH...I would think that if you went lets say 120mph you would need more brakes, which would become a issue after a few laps...Not sure that if you went 120mph you would get a faster lap time then they are now low 17 second laps...Good question for John how much business would you get if the motor rule was open?? If the rules are open then it bring back more aftermarket builders suppliers, smart guys building crazy stuff...remember how many cool sleds Tim bender built? Not all work but it creates interest and people talking and watching!!!

I think, like the Chili bowl, the great equalizer could be the track at ER...These sleds use a ton of brake to slow down, if you went faster you would need more brake...how many guys could hang onto a sled that went 120mph for more than 5 laps? Keep the laps at 25-30 for the WC 12-15 for semi...Laps would be the great equalizer..

I bet there would be some Vintage guys entering the WC with 440 IFS, there is 5 entries maybe??

I agree with John on some things just not the smaller carbide that to me is a safety issue, the most you can run right now is 12" and if you are physically strong enough you can use that, most use 10" in Champ right now some 8" depending on strength...who knows maybe 2 skis on Right side?? with the Gs that would pull who could hang on??? need a side car and second rider!!

all for discussion I am not proposing...

TJ
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