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Limited 500

Limited 500

Postby that 31 car » February 13th, 2013, 4:30 pm

Greg: The stock motor in a Champ Chassis is pretty much what EPT Factory 600 is. George and Claude want you on select approved motors and approved new style glass. If you have interest there, perhaps you could promote the running of Factory 600 in USSA, the race rules guys and the board did not approve the class last year, but it is doing ok by Claude and George. And 2014 is a new season. If you like it bring it up at convention.Issue will be tech, cause it's a stock based class, so expect engine tear downs often, Kinda like the old Pro Stock, only guy who made money was the gasket salesman.
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Postby pitcrew97 » February 14th, 2013, 2:00 am

With the information that is here I would like everyone to think back to when Sprint 380 rolled out. The first couple of years a great class. Then brand new equipment started rolling into it and all but killed the class. What ever changes are made lets remember the errors made there.
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Postby Greg Bihner » February 14th, 2013, 2:31 am

Some very good points Jerry. As far as the motor thing goes a stock Polaris 440 or rotax 440 or Cat 500 is not faster than a champ which a factory 600 is. The motor rule with limited is spot on. In limited last weekend these 3 motors are neck and neck and cheap to buy and maintain. For the 106 track thing. No one is saying you Have to run a 106. Run the 116 and get a couple years out of it. The goal is get more sleds and riders into this class and make it easier. I think there is alot of interest in this class. I could have sold my sprint sled 5 times over if it had a stock case and 15" wide track not everyone can build a sled from the ground up for limited and ask the guys that have built or are building how much easier it would have been to use wahl skids and billet case and any hood. Put a minimum wieght on them so guys can't go crazy with light stuff. Again this is a good discussion and these are just my thoughts. Jerry does have a few more years experience in this than I do, but remember ISR does not make the rules, we as members and group board mebers of an ISR groups, make the the rules if ISR deams them safe. Thanks Greg
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Postby proton » February 14th, 2013, 3:11 am

Great comments...I am with Watcher on this one, I could live with changing the hood rule and maybe the rail rule, but for sure DON'T change the 116x15"/121x15" track and chaincase rule, this class is golden for MIRA, lots of cool ideas with different sleds, makes for a very interesting class to watch / fans love it.
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Postby Greg Bihner » February 14th, 2013, 4:06 am

Another thing to think about I believe Dustin Wahl ran a 116 until last year and I think Dan Fenhaus runs one know and he does quite well in pro champ. So is it that big of deal????
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Postby Schmidt87 » February 14th, 2013, 4:22 am

Terry and Jerry would know better than i would but would there be an advantage to open chaincase BUT still enforce the track rule as is? Also were the 116x13.5 softer than the 116x15?
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Postby watcher » February 14th, 2013, 4:29 am

Tyler, yes there would be an advantage with open chaincase, can move the track back, different weight transfer. my opinion

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Postby greybeard444 » February 14th, 2013, 5:56 am

Just so you are all aware The ORA is open to improving this class. So all your ideas are welcome. But as Jerry said it is a core class and has to be discussed at ISR. So put this stuff in writing so we can discuss it at the meeting in May. Thank you for all your interest.
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Postby HRA motorsports » February 14th, 2013, 6:23 am

just from the outside looking in. If you guys dont want the super long custom chaincases in the class. You could add a maximum center to center distance for custom chaincases and still keep the any oem chaincase thing
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Postby Spy-Guy 74 » February 14th, 2013, 6:47 am

It's good to see all the ideas and different opinions on the class. I really think the hood and rail issue should be looked at for sure, neither will make much difference on the track. Would make for a easier build, and you wouldn't have to machine the rails for a houle or wahl skid. Some of the sleds have a wahl skid, but with different rails now.

At the same time, I can see Jerry's side of the story too. We had a Champ sled built back when the rule was 350 pounds, last time it was weighed coming off the track it weighed 352 pounds. Yes it had lots of titanium shafts, bolts, and front and rear skid arms were titanium too. If they were changed back, may add 2O pounds to sled. What I'm getting at is if all things are equal, driver, motor, clutching, and the way a sled handles 30 pounds of weight will equal 4 sled lengths each lap on a track the size of Ogilvie. After 7 or ten laps that's a considerable distance, something to think about. I don't know what the limited sleds weigh now, but would think at least 400 pounds. If I'm wrong correct me now with the correct information on weight. I think that's part of Jerry's thinking, and it is a factor too.
I don't have a sled in this class, so my opinion is just mine and has no bearing on what changes should be made. Only my personal ideas on the class. If you could get 10 to 15 sleds racing each race the class will only grow and get better.
Watcher correct me if I'm wrong, because this class is a core class rules would not be changed for next year anyways. It could not really be changed till the following year, unless it's a safety issue and it isn't. On a last note we had a 13 and half by 116 track in that 350 pound champ, it was used in the 375 pound champ class too, but needed a lot of lead sheeting under the seat to make weight.
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