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Formula 500 Rules

Formula 500 Rules

Postby Petawawarace » March 6th, 2013, 2:05 pm

I'd like this to be an open discussion about the rule package being currently used for Formula 500.

I personally love this class, and think it is doing a great job getting more people involved with oval racing. I think the rules are great and we don't need to "change" the rules at all.

I do however think that we need to clarify and enhance the rules for the class.

Here is what I am talking about. I went to Eagle River this year with a sled that had never been raced before. Travelled 18hrs to get there towing a 28ft trailer. I think we did pretty well. We had some hiccups, but sorted them out and made the final Sunday.....then got dq'd saturday night after the semi-final tech inspection. To be clear, I have absolutely no problem with why i got dq'd. I had an EFI pipe on the sled. The problem that I have is this. I had no idea that it was an EFI pipe. As soon as you look at it, if you know what your looking for, you can see it was an EFI pipe. I agree 100% that I should have been disqualified. But how in the HELL is someone who builds one of these sleds supposed to know that they have a legal pipe....or head...or rear skid...etc? The tech guys have all of the measurements of all these parts. I asked one of the tech guys for a copy of the book and they said they would mail me a copy...(still waiting for it, but I know during race season the guys are very busy, and I have no doubt he will get me a copy)

But what about the new guy that is building one of these sleds. It is a huge kick in the @$$ to drive 18+ hours each way to find out something I could have noticed over the summer while building the sled.

I know in the past it has been the racers responsibility to make sure their "stock" sled is stock, but that was generally on brand new stock machines. These are 20+ year old machines that have been through god knows how many different owners before they get to the racer, and these owners have done who knows what to the sled in the mean-time. The guy I bought mine from, or that he bought it from etc....had obviously changed it to an EFI pipe.

This post is not meant to throw blame at anyone, or complain about being dq'd or any of that. I just think that we could make the rules package better if we put some of the details we already have into them so guys don't waste time and money on something the could and SHOULD have known.

There are also alot of grey areas in the rules that alot of us racers know (like the fact that the steering hoop must be in the stock location) but they are not written in the rules for new racers to see.

Are there any plans to make-up new rules for when the class opens up for review???? If not, I would be willing to draft up a copy.
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Formula 500 Rules

Postby mdmill2x » March 7th, 2013, 4:06 am

Another item that would be useful if it were clarified and consistent across racing organizations is who can compete in what classes? How are you moved from one class to another? For example CPTC has Sport, Semi-Pro, and Pro F500. You can compete in two of the classes. For example Sport and Semi-Pro but not Pro, or Semi-Pro and Pro but not Sport. In addition CPTC says - if you are deemed to be a Pro racer you can not compete in Semi or Sport. How is one determined to be a Pro only racer?

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Formula 500 Rules

Postby Petawawarace » March 7th, 2013, 4:45 am

I agree. In the EPT we were having far more entries in Semi-pro than pro...alot of the time it actually paid more to win semi-pro. The pro class should be run in 3 rounds of heats, and LCQ and a final, and should have more entries than the semi-pro class, but I think that is more the responsibility of the race org to determine who is bumped up to pro only.

One rule that I do think should be changed is the no-quick-change clutch rule. I'll admit at first I thought this was a good rule. But the clutches on these sleds are often so bad, by the time you rebuild them/true them up, your going to have a couple hundred dollars into them. Alot of guys are just buying new P-85's from wahls for $475. Well a P-85 quick change is $545. There is no performance advantage with the quick-change P-85. It simply makes adjustments alot easier. Add in the cost of the grunt tools $150 to properly tune the stock P-85 and it actually costs more to run the stock clutch.
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Formula 500 Rules

Postby mdmill2x » March 10th, 2013, 4:38 am

Another item worth discussing is Jr F500 class and rules.

ORA has a Jr F500 class for 12 to 15 year old kids. No restrictor or gear rules. ie. Jr driver can drive same sled Adult driver does with no changes.

USSA has two Jr F500 classes. Jr F500 for 11 to 13 year olds running a specific gear and carb restrictor plate and Jr F500 for 14 and 15 year olds running a F500 legal sled ( no gearing restrictions or carb restrictor plate ).

CPTC runs one class of Jr F500 for 14 and 15 year olds. I believe a legal F500 sled can be used.

Eagle River Derby runs a Jr F500 for 14 and 15 year olds.

I am not sure how many people race across the different groups but we do. Some understanding of who can race in what class and consistancy in the rules would be a good thing.

For example can a driver race in Jr F500 and F500? Some groups allow this, I am not sure about others. Can a driver race in Jr F500, F500, and Women's F500?
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Formula 500 Rules

Postby tuner78 » March 10th, 2013, 5:06 am

Allow playback tachometer. NOT DATA AQUISITION!RPM playback ONLY. I would suggest a spec tach so all would use the same one.
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Formula 500 Rules

Postby watcher » March 10th, 2013, 5:15 am

F-500 is a ISR Core Class, Jr F-500, Sport F-500, Semi Pro F-500 and Women's F-500 is not, so the group you are racing with can set there own rules in allowing a Jr to move up. I know in the pass, that USSA had you fill out a JR Advancement form out to move up or into a Sr Class. The JUNIOR ADVANCEMENT is on Page 144 in the ISR 2012/2013 Yearbook.

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Formula 500 Rules

Postby Petawawarace » March 10th, 2013, 3:33 pm

I really don't think you need any form of data. These motors make the same power from 6900 to 7500 if you cant clutch that with a regular tach you have a problem I do think the guys that are pointing their go-pro cameras at their tach should be dq'd. It's pretty easy to spot when the camera on your helmet is pointing down!!!!
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Formula 500 Rules

Postby tp176 » March 10th, 2013, 11:39 pm

How about no tachs? I dont think that was an issue not having one when I rode yours Jeff!
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Formula 500 Rules

Postby Spy-Guy 74 » March 11th, 2013, 3:52 am

I think for somebody new to racing a tach is important, it helps them at the line otherwise you'll see them jump at the line. We've always just used the tach that came with the sled, next year when we test I'll have one that has playback. During a race we'll just use the regular one. For the most part I like the rules the way they are. Tony you've been around long enough, you don't need a tach at the line, I think some new comers do. I wouldn't use a go pro camera myself, as I feel it's a grey area but would be hard to police. The only way would be you couldn't use one in this class at all.

Most of the time when rules get opened up, to many things change and most of the time they were not really needed. Sure a open shock rule would be great for us, have the shocks and tools to make changes. For others they would just use the same ones and be at a real disadvantage too I might add. I lean to keep the rules just as they are for now, the class is growing and really some great racing too. Somebody must have got something correct, right from the get go on the rules or we wouldn't have seen this much involvement.
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Formula 500 Rules

Postby Petawawarace » March 11th, 2013, 4:40 am

Greg,

I agree 100% that the rules are working great, and as I stated in my first post I don't feel we need to change them. I have the specs coming that the tech guys were using this year and I think some of that info should be incorperated into the rules...the EFI pipe for example...Just have the measurments of the correct pipe so that we can check and not be unsure if we have the legal pipe when we go to the track. More clarifications to the rules than anything.

I also know that alot of guys simply look at the F-500 rules in the ISR book and don't know the General rules for oval racing also apply. Things like the tunnel enclosure, min ski width etc. If you look on say the EPT website for example, it gives the F-500 rules but not the general rules in regards to enclosures, clutch covers etc.

About the only rule that I would like to see changed the next time around would be the quick-change rule...Still must be a P-85 but allowed to be a quick change. If that rule didn't get changed, it wouldn't matter to me, it just doesn't make sense the way I see it.
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