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Formula 500 Rules

Formula 500 Rules

Postby Bob Vehring » March 11th, 2013, 6:56 pm

Tim Out side of confusing me as to why, especially at this level, anyone would be out there that didn't want to win, I think you not understanding what I'm trying to say.
I could put 10 boxes on our sled and its not going to go any faster. What it does do is to teach us things that otherwise take a great deal of time to learn.
IMO the biggest problem in racing sleds,and this goes back to 80-90's when my wife drag raced sleds, is at best you get maybe a 3 months series. You spend alot of money and do alot of travel to get in 4-6 races. also from my POV, were getting into this pretty late, Regans 33, I'm 62 and are new to oval racing sleds. Both my kids have raced since they were 8, and done very well in everything they tried, but this is totally new, we have alot to learn. Some of the people out there started in Kitty Kats, some have done it for decades. I have no doubt my kid will figure it out. The question is how long will it take and how much will those years of learning cost us.
you want

Thats the money saving thing about data system, saving the new people the years and money spent trying to get up the learning curve and really become competitive. Yes you can call that part of the game, but how many people either get bored or run out of money before they reach their potential? Maybe, making them a player faster, otherwise known as enjoying it, will keep them in the sport.


BTW, there are ways to control Data system cost. Simply limit it to a couple temps, RPM and speed. Those things will cover jetting and clutching and your well under 500 brand new. Simply ban GPS, shock travel G boxes, string pots or whatever you want.
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Formula 500 Rules

Postby Flatout » March 12th, 2013, 12:24 am

I think alot of people think the F500 class is a form of "stock" racing. That is the farthest thing from the truth. Thats why it is called "Formula" 500. The rules allow the tech savy builder a platform that is cheap (relatively) to build while allowing innovative tuning. The guys and gals that are willing to read the rules and utilize them to the full extent will find there are plenty of places to engineer a sled that handles better and goes faster. With a stock engine the cost is also a fraction of champ.
I agree with Jeff about allowing a quick change clutch. It makes tuning easier but does not give a performance advantage. Most of the fast F500 teams have purchased 2 or 3 new P85 clutches and the specialty tools to do the tuning. That way they can do a change in the trailer and swap clutches to test. Add up two new P85 clutches and all the clutch tools and it is way more money than a Microbelmont QC P85.
The reality is that teams with deep pockets will spend their way around the rules that were designed to keep it cheap. That doesn't guarantee that they will be faster than the guys (like Jeff) that have a limited budget and an unlimited imagination. I say other than the restriction on QC clutches the rules are about as good as you can make them. Screwing with them would be a mistake.
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Formula 500 Rules

Postby mbenoy119 » March 12th, 2013, 1:47 am

I agree with you Howard, 100%! You are NEVER going to make rules that are going to handcuff the teams with big budgets and it doesn't matter WHAT class you are talking about.

F-500 is working well, leave it alone!!! I do think that some published specs would be a good addition to the rule book though, such as the measurements of the pipe. It's very difficult to know the history of a 22-25 year old sled. I've found all kinds of strange things over the years!
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Formula 500 Rules

Postby colt53 » March 12th, 2013, 5:18 am

You don't need a BIG" buget sled to be "fast"--the sled Ryan raced this year was Colts old F500 sled with "no fancy bracing"-tricks etc. and we don't have much money put into it. We ran it once on the lake at the being of the year for a couple of hours, put in our clutching - gearing - setup camber and DIDN'T touch it or change a thing all season ( I mean it when we didn't touch anything ). It won alot of races this year.
I believe the rules are good and any changes only will drive up the cost if people want to spend the money--they won't be faster.
We have such a good turn out of F500 sleds, don't drive people away by making it more expensive.
But if people are willing to spent the big money and think they can win by just spending big dollars-l still have another one of Colts old F500 sleds sitting in our shop.

The people building the motor/sled KNOW when they are bending the rules and play dumb or argue with TECH when they get caught or there is a discrepancy. l know what l would do if l where a tech person.


Which is why TECH is important in this class and the EPT did a good job this year. We had Ryans sled teched, motor cc'd, Y Pipe and pipe checked at numerous races this season.

The only way to be faster is to TEST!!
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Formula 500 Rules

Postby Petawawarace » March 12th, 2013, 6:03 am

[quote=colt53]The people building the motor/sled KNOW when they are bending the rules and play dumb or argue with TECH when they get caught or there is a discrepancy. l know what l would do if l where a tech person.[/quote]

Colt, The problem is that alot of the time you don't know you are doing something wrong. We got dq'd twice this year. Once in Eagle river for a pipe that I had no idea was an EFI pipe. Once I saw the difference between the pipe, yes it's very easy to spot, but how is someone supposed to just KNOW that??? Thats why we need to have the specs available to new racers. We also got dq'd for sanding down the flanges on the wye pipe. 0.020" we took off to true them up and seal against the gaskets. It wouldn't make a stitch of difference but it's still illegal none the less and was 100% my mistake.
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Formula 500 Rules

Postby Isanti » March 12th, 2013, 9:42 am

What is the rule about bracing the bulkhead? I seen a lot of these sleds this year that have braces over the top of the engine between the left side of the steering hoop to the right shock mount. Is this a grey area that needs addessing? I heard that some people were told to take it off.
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Formula 500 Rules

Postby Spy-Guy 74 » March 12th, 2013, 10:01 am

Well I have it on one of the sleds that we run now, have a couple more made at this time. I look at it bracing and giving your chassis a little less flexing. Also have two other braces from the stock steering hoop, one over the brake to a shock tower and one over the clutch guard to a shock tower.

No one has ever said anything to me in tech before and we've gone through plenty of times. Do you know what race people were asked to take it off?
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Formula 500 Rules

Postby that 31 car » March 12th, 2013, 10:10 am

Reinforcement from steering hoop to front of bulkhead,is and always has been legal. Lateral reinforcement or support to the trailing mount is also legal. Handle bars can be offset in the chassis, but must retain one bolt in the original lower bolt pattern.
Skid frames may utilize a revised front torque arm limiter method or the Wahl component can be used.
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Formula 500 Rules

Postby Isanti » March 12th, 2013, 10:20 am

Maby I heard wrong but was told Jodan Wahls had the bracing and then they removed it. Just want to clearify before I swap the f-340 motor out for a 500. I talked with some others at Strathcona and they heard the same thing.
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Formula 500 Rules

Postby Petawawarace » March 12th, 2013, 10:32 am

I believe that the issue you are referring to was one where they had replaced the whole steering-arm mount and steering hoop for one that was a single piece. Not real clear on the details though. I am also waiting on some clarification from ISR on my steering set-up. The location was deemed fine, but Claude wasn't sure about how I mounted it to the stock steering hoop. Hopefully it gets sorted out soon.
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