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2015 ISR rules already being dictated by the OEM'S?

2015 ISR rules already being dictated by the OEM'S?

Postby watcher » March 14th, 2013, 12:34 pm

i can get along.....most of the time! LOL

i have no problems with prochamp, he most be old and i need to respect my elders....cause i am old and been in racing since 1978 and he said he been around longer them me....glad that he did not leave the sport, we need die hards in this sport.

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2015 ISR rules already being dictated by the OEM'S?

Postby 1p48 » March 14th, 2013, 1:03 pm

adapt or die, just like formula 1 and formula 3 , change is enevitable...you guys have had to see this coming with the non-production of 440 motors.. i for one think efi would be incredibly cool, would me more money in the dyno room but, oh well, thats the cost of racing!!!!!!
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2015 ISR rules already being dictated by the OEM'S?

Postby prochamp » March 14th, 2013, 1:04 pm

Yep respect for elders. Ha watcher I been sled racin since 1973: :B
Racing cars since 1968
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2015 ISR rules already being dictated by the OEM'S?

Postby that 31 car » March 14th, 2013, 4:02 pm

Reality is nothing has been agreed to by the four manufacturers. One of them announced that their 600 sx package will be EFI in a season or two, but that's pretty much it. The gentleman who wrote the article was a guest attendant at a ISR meeting about two years back when he ran a XC organization and actually was at the meeting to encourage a method of slowing down the XC guys from a safety standpoint. He had the priviledge of listening to the manufacturers representatives of the time speak in generalities of what they felt was the future and how they are approaching it. I will tell you from being in the sessions for many years, the manufacturers never give full disclosure on what they are going to build, what engineering methods are to be used, or how the goal will be accomplished. First of all, they are under the same requirements as their engineers about revealing new product, and secondly, to have all four manufacturers in the same room, has to be very tightly controlled as to plans, marketing, engineering and other individual specific needs of a manufacturer. A "little " item known as Sherman Anti Trust enters into play, and you think anyone of the manufacturers or ISR owners want to violate that item, you got another thing coming. I was just deposed in a Sherman Anti Trust deal, (unrelated to ISR, totally with my regular employment) a number of years ago and believe me it ain't any fun. And that was just a deposition, try being on the witness stand once, worse yet be found guilty of violating Sherman Anti Trust.
While Mr. Urquart is a great writer and a good columnist, from the meeting he was at a few years back and the reality now is a lot different. Race managers changed, (3 of them) one tech advisor has passed away and lots of back at the office personell have changed. It ain't quite the way the picture was painted.
As far as being around a while, I started sleds in 70 and cars in 66, so several of us have been around a bit.
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2015 ISR rules already being dictated by the OEM'S?

Postby tifa_5_2000 » March 15th, 2013, 2:11 am

good job prochamp, everyones riled up ;)
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2015 ISR rules already being dictated by the OEM'S?

Postby watcher » March 15th, 2013, 2:17 am

So, prochamp what sled and classes do you race now? give us some Background on all the years of racing.
i do respect my elders!

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2015 ISR rules already being dictated by the OEM'S?

Postby fast dad » March 15th, 2013, 3:12 am

I could see this happening, both of you are right in some extent. I see the manufactures doing this and so that they the "manufactures" can control all of racing. it will be where they (manuf) are the only ones who can change the ECU to there settings, so you will have to pay them. it is going just like the auto industry, they don't want the average guy tuning or playing with there product. Your aftermarket in die with in a few years. Look at the new consumer sleds, is there any parts on the new sled that you need to buy after market, they have hand guards, studs, hand warmers, plastic skis. The manufactures are out to make you purchase everything from them so they can show a profit to there share holders. Unfortunatally this include racing. The best and closet racing is the pro champ class, hence many motor builders, aftermarket parts, tune your own carbs, timing, compression. Once the manufactures get involved it will destroy racing as we know it. Just look at the sno cross this season, riders winning by 14 seconds in just about all the finals. All stock motors and stock parts per the rules PER the manufactures rules!!

Long and short I have seen and been involved in many racing series first hand that when manufactures call the shots they destroy racing as they have there own agenda , not the racers.

I hope that the affiliates all attend the meetings to cast there vote based on racing not the check that the manufactures give them.

TJ
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2015 ISR rules already being dictated by the OEM'S?

Postby prochamp » March 15th, 2013, 6:48 am

Thank you TJ

Thats exactly what I was asking for and I agree with you 100 %

Jerry
Thank you very much for the explanation on the article and clearing up the info as the article was written.

Watcher I dont need to certify my past/present to you
Thanks, the post is not about me!
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2015 ISR rules already being dictated by the OEM'S?

Postby prochamp » March 15th, 2013, 6:50 am

[quote=tifa_5_2000]good job prochamp, everyones riled up ;)[/quote]

Your welcome Kutter !!!
:B
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2015 ISR rules already being dictated by the OEM'S?

Postby EPT VP/Tech Director » March 15th, 2013, 9:59 am

The best way to eliminated a category of race is to leave the racers do the rules.
The best example are the Drag racing, approximately 15 years ago when the racers and the manufacturer of aftermarkets cylinders and aftermarkets racing parts were in a majority in the votes and that they changed the rules for the improved and ProStock classes so that the racers can use aftermarquet cylinders and parts, the companies which sold performance parts were suppose to give money (contingency) to racers and ISR affiliateds to help.
Results:
Racers, promoters and ISR affiliateds never saw the color of this money, the snowmobile manufacturers withdrew the contingency almost completely and the drag racing are now almost history because:
- There is no more promoter because often the promoters were dealers helped by the manufacturers or were the major partners to help the promoters.
- The cost to build a drag sled became so expensive because of the cost of the aftermarkets performance parts that the racers with small budget were withdrawn and the drag races are dying (how much participants was at Hay Day).
For Eastern Pro Tour 100% of our promoters have a snowmobile dealer for sponsor which is helped by the factory and for some this sponsor is the major one. It is also these sponsors who allow the promoters of the Eastern Pro Tour series to give sizeable guaranteed purses to each program.
For the Eastern Pro Tour series, except for the sponsors of the Outlaw 600 class that John Hooper found we never received any amount or contingency to promote the Ice Oval snowmobile races from Larry Ruglands, Darcy Rosentreters and anyone else out there building Champ engines but we always have the contingency of some manufacturer even if they received no sale income because even the engines used in the Champ are no more produce.
Those which want to eliminate the manufacturers from the Oval races on ice are people who probably never have been involved in more than being a racer which benefit from energy, time and the money that the voluntary ones and promoters put in the love of the sport so that these who does not see Farther than the end of their nose can have fun. Attention when I say these words I speak only about one small minority of racer which thinks only for their person, who is never hapy and who complains all the time.
I am convinced that for the good of the snowmobile racing we need ISR and of the experiment of young or old peoples that are at the meeting, the young one to tel us the experiment which they would like to live and the old one to tel us the experiments that they lived and thus tried to find a happy medium for the good of all and of the Ovals races.
I think the best way to bring new racers in Oval racing is to listen to the new racers and the young one that are interested in oval racing they are the future of the Oval racing not us hold people who are more close to the old people's home than to drive a race sled.
Soon they will not let us go out to see the snowmobile racing so we have to listen to the young one to know what they want to see as a spectator because they are the future.
Forget about the past we are in 2013, in car racing the young one adapted their self to the reality of the new mechanic with computer and IFI. If we don't want to be left over we have to follow the wave.
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