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What Will Replace Champ 440

What Will Replace Champ 440

Postby Spy-Guy 74 » March 14th, 2013, 4:22 pm

Ok lets have an open discussion on what will replace this class, and then tell me your thoughts on why it would be better. I can tell you I didn't like when F-I or F-III went by the wayside in the end of there era. Maybe I'm just gettng old, but I have a hard time seeing anything replacing Champ, and really making it better for the racer or the race fan.
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What Will Replace Champ 440

Postby ice_racer_69 » March 15th, 2013, 11:51 am

Champ chassis 600 open motors, max 8500 rpm via spec ignition/fuel injection. 375 lbs min weight, no combined weight rule...keeps it a builders class utilizing current technology, keeping speed in check.
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What Will Replace Champ 440

Postby bmf » March 15th, 2013, 2:10 pm

Nothing I hope. Why obsolite everybodys eguipment. Champ has made great strides the last few years.
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What Will Replace Champ 440

Postby ice_racer_69 » March 15th, 2013, 2:26 pm

Last 440 motors were manufactured in 2007. Parts are getting hard to find/way more expensive and will only get worse... and I only know of which Polars parts to look for, no idea what the other 2 manu's have to offer. Champ is great and i love it, love racing it, love everything about it, but it is fast becoming a VINTAGE CLASS. Nascar introduced the Gen 6 this year, snowmobile ice oval racing needs its gen 6.
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What Will Replace Champ 440

Postby racer43 » March 15th, 2013, 2:31 pm

Spy has a great, but tough question. I really hope that bmf is correct and nothing changes, but I have a feeling that it will. Polaris already can't get 440 cases. 69 has a decent option, but i don't like to see the word "SPEC" included. There is no such thing as spec, it all depends who you know, and how many spec parts you can afford to buy and sort through to find the best one. It doesn't matter how it is done there are never 2 exactly identical parts. I hope they keep it fairly open so the guys that like to or have to (to afford) build still can, but 69 is right speed needs to be in check, and if there is a change I hope they look into how to make it a little more affordable. I realize it is the premiere class but today the average Joe can't afford to champ race. I know some disagree, but today $100,000 won't keep you up front. I won't say you will never be up front without spending more, but not consistantly.
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What Will Replace Champ 440

Postby proton » March 15th, 2013, 2:40 pm

I would like to see an outlaw style of class(roll cage)that is both lighter and quicker maybe with the use of composites and different technologies. keep the rules open letting the racer/builder build DIFFERENT looking machines that keep within the scope of the class(offset, twin track, roll cage style ect). we would see veterans staying in the sport longer racing against the young guns.

600cc mod engines would be fine because of the heavier sleds... wouldn't see dangerously high speeds

I know the critics will say it is going to be to expensive, but think of it this way....the top champ teams are spending hundreds of thousands of dollars now, so we may as well have something truly unique and thrilling and relatively safe to watch.

all you need is 12-15 teams that can travel around the country and race to put on a great show

again...keep the rules open and watch with anticipation the creative machines the racers can build....now wouldn't that be something.
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What Will Replace Champ 440

Postby that 31 car » March 15th, 2013, 3:12 pm

Although I am a Outlaw proponent, I think we really want to look long and hard at this deal. Manufacturers probably would never support Outlaw deeply, but they will support something that is based somewhat off of what they build. And we need to remember that the four together got a hard time building what one of them did in the late 80's early 90's. Yeah, they cost more now, but the development costs more too. Add to that they now have a responsibility to the stockholders as well.
Champ is extremely fragile and quite special. Van StryDonk's EPT 600 is already considered too much gun by several people. Some of them are manufacturers. I know that when USSA ran Open 600, the pull off the corners and terminal speed at the end of the straights on the big tracks like BJ and Valcourt, was considered to be a issue. EPT 600 has really only had two years,and already the development is made major leaps in speed and technology. If teams like Malcolm and Nic only had that sled to develop without a Champ sled to concentrate on, just think what could have been done. Then throw David and Durmont into the mix, Let Rugsy build a few more Soo 500 600's with a 30 lap sprint potential instead of a 500 mile life expectancy, and you would really have some fast hot rods. Problem is we don't need to go any faster. Jack took a really hard hit, and young or old anyone would be just as hurt. We all prayed for over a year to see Curtis do better, and we can name a few more that took some hard hits. We don't need more speed or more pull off the corners, we don't need more that 100 mph max velocity, but we still need a sled that is a builders class, with minimal restrictions. AND that is the hard part.
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What Will Replace Champ 440

Postby ice_racer_69 » March 15th, 2013, 3:39 pm

Jacques idea was to limit traction...6 in carbides and shorter studs will slow down a factory 600....another thing to keep in mind is the 4-stroke...at what point will they be the norm in the snowmobile industry? I am just throwing out ideas, not for or against anything in particular, but something needs to be done. We will probably have to use 600 power plants....lets hear some more ideas!
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What Will Replace Champ 440

Postby Petawawarace » March 15th, 2013, 5:23 pm

The class right now is the best it has ever been. Let's leave it alone. I can see NEW 440 motors being harder to find, but the used market should be getting even stronger!!! The sleds the 440s came in are starting to get a few years older and get beat up. I really don't see how a 600 wouldn't be faster unless you choked them right down. I can't see how EFI is going to work unless you put restrictors in the TB's. They are just going to be too fast. Maybe open 600s with 32mm carbs?

The class has such good racing now and it's more competitive now than ever before. Let's make sure we don't screw that up simply because they don't make 440s anymore. Alot of other forms of motorsports use engines that were never even available OEM.
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What Will Replace Champ 440

Postby jhooper/HRE » March 16th, 2013, 12:48 am

I don,t think we need to completely replace the existing Champ class but we all know that lack of 440 parts and the overall cost of these sleds needs to be adressed.
I think we need a second, less expensive engine and chassis option that would compete head to head against the current Champ engines.
I would propose that we make some minor changes to the Factory 600 rules and blend the 2 classes together.
Option #1 would be the existing champ sleds with just a couple minor changes {no titanium studs and 385lbs}
Option #2 would be the factory 600 sleds @ 410lbs and with carb restrictors {to be determined by testing performed by Darcy, Larry, and myself}.
I would also like to see the carbides restricted in all classes to 8 inch max to improve safety and bring corner speeds down just a tiny bit.
If we do this right I think we can satisfy the manufacturers AND attract more racers to the premeier class while making the racing slightly safer. John H.
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