Big 4 Speculation Continued

by **jordan_snowboarder2** » January 31st, 2006, 5:03 pm

I'm continuing the topic in here, as we are getting a ways into the other one.

Wow. This is a great post. Ive read the entire thing. Well all i can say that i am really interesting in what these 4 manufacter's are doin. They are really starting to design sleds for the rider. I'm only 18, and i have been sledding for as long i as can remember. I started on an old enticer 340 which did 60mph. Man they were great sleds. Then my dad bought a 1990 Phazer 485. Man they were even better. Then for 2005 my dad bought me a MXZ 550 Fan REV. Im 6'2'' and man ill tell you, thats a sweet machine. I'm able to do 90mph and to keep up to 600 or 700's on the trail. It's really comfortable, and i can ride all day with no complaints, i feel as if it was made to fit me. I like it just as much as my dad's 2006 yamaha rage(which is an amazing sled). All These new snowmachines are turning out to be these days is amazing. We now get over 20 mpg, use less gas, dont break down as much, and have sleds that look and run amazing.

Yamaha is just coming on strong. They had there problems like the VMAX and the slow viper back in the day, but they must have fired some people and hired new designers because they are just moving ahead so fast. For 2006, id say yamaha will bring out a larger engine for the Apex, about 170 or 180 HP. Id also say that they will have fuel injection for the genisis 120. Also, id say they make a snowmobile lighter and cheaper that is made for the younger age group, like me, that have a chance at affording it. Something that equal to a 550 Fan Ski-doo, or a 500SS, just a bit smaller and lighter.

Polaris...well i dont now what they are thinking. The fushion is just a big bad dream that a bet they wish they would get ride of. They are more expensive, less reliable, and pretty uguly. As far as i am concerened they have takin a few steps back and will be there for awhile. I would say that they get rid of that chasis and develop a new one. But to tell you rge truth, i think its hard to say what they do, but they need to do something.

Arctic is trying, but isn't really getting anywhere. There and crossfires are nice machines, and fast, but not a match for the REV's. I believe that they will come out with a 4 stroke to compete with the yamaha's, and another complete new chasis to take over the firecats and to try to get ahead of the REV. I also believe that they will produce a bigger engine then ski-doo's Mach Z.

Ski-doo is doin just about everying good right now, except that i think they should start thinking about 4-strokes more. The REV chasis is great, not sure how much longer we will see its been out for 4 years already, but it will be around awhile till another brand gives them some heavy compition. I'd say the Mach Z engine is going to be even larger this year, maybe 180 or 190 HP. But other then that, i dont really seening them changing anything, except for a new gauge cluster and a couple other small changes.

by **MM700** » February 1st, 2006, 1:01 am

Of course ski-doo is gonna go bigger...faster...why???..Cause Cat will do something stupid like come out with a 1,200 cc thundercat...cat has always had little man's complex, and they are not happy right now...they don't like to lose..especially the muscle sled war...something which they dominated with the thundercat for years...now ski-doo has the big gun and they hate it,,,my question is: HOW FAST IS TOO FAST???? Everybody has the right to buy what they want...but do we need sleds that will run 120-125 mph, on public trails???

by **wnynewbie** » February 1st, 2006, 3:40 am

MM700, i agree. i was thinking of buying new this year and i thought that an apex would be great but, $10,00 for a lsed is slittle steep and as the weather turned out i am glad i didn't, i'd probably be divorced. but it made me think with all the speed limits and stuff why not bu a 500 class for $3,000 less and still be able to ride 50 on the trails. i like speed, but we don't really have huge open areas here, a 5-600 is enough to keep me happy.

by **MM700** » February 1st, 2006, 4:32 am

exactly...the 600 class sleds all do 100 mph..and get there quickly...very few big bores can beat a good rider on a 600 in the woods...heck an ex racer buddy of mine rides a 440, and you won't even see his tail light, unless he's stopped and waiting for you...my 600 ho runs with the 800's from 2000-2001..they just keep getting faster and faster...I will not buy anything over 600 cc or 120 hp from now on.....besides it's more fun beatin up on the big boys with a smaller sled, that uses less gas...lol

BTW..I am gonna be staying up near Iron River Michigan this weekend with a bunch of riders...might ride up from Tomahawk friday...I'll let ya know thursday night..maybe I can meet some of you guys for a burger near phelps or something.

by **MM700** » February 1st, 2006, 4:34 am

I know your from ny newbie...I meant the other guys from Northern wisconsin

by **Yoo** » February 1st, 2006, 4:44 am

Jordan, I commend you for your maturity and knowledge at your age. It is so refreshing getting good comments from someone your age. Thanks for the post.

I agree with most of what you are saying, however I don't agree that Polaris is sitting back. I think you will see them do a lot in 4-stroke development. While I'm sure many will disagree, Polaris TOTALLY changed the ATV industry with the CVT, and they have too much pride to not take a leadership role in changing our sport.

What is good at Cat is that they still have a lot of focus on Snowmobiling. Even with the Financials just released last week showing how they (just like Polaris) are making most of the profits in the ATV Industry, Arctic still has some of the most loyal buyers in the business. This loyalty will translate into an even better Turbo-powered 4-stroke.

I still maintain a problem we have is when BRP 'trashes' 4-strokes in advertising, simply because they think the EPA will always allow the burning of 2-stroke oil...even when the SDI and DI admittedly are meeting 2010 EPA Emmission standards.

The future is not a mere 3 years away, but more like 10 years away.

MM700 makes a lot of good points on the Rev, and the driver forward design. A design on the drawing books in 1990 by the Karpiks, released in 1999 on the Blade, followed a couple years later by Ski-Doo. A concept that has a lot of merit...but none more applicable then what many have posted on the other post. That is the OEM's need to make the ride, user friendly.

I am exactly one of those that people talk about. I don't do a darn thing to any of my sleds. Heck, the only thing I can do (without the help of my wife) is change plugs. And I don't have to do that anymore. However I am going to a special class as to how to change a belt next Friday.

I DON'T want to have to learn how to adjust my front ski pressure, limeter straps, schock compression, and so forth. I can't wait till the day comes when I can simply push a button for the type of ride I want and the conditions I am in.

MM700, where I do disagree is on the M-10. Not until I rode my Blade in so many different conditions, from riding the snirt of Northern Wisconsin, to riding the moguls of the Bill Nichols, to riding the powder of the Rockies. I have never ridden a sled that can compare to the Blade and the M-10.

This is not to say that I don't love my wifes 4-Stroke Venture RS, as I do. Yamaha also has an excellent ride.

As I had on the other post relating to this topic, I still maintain that the OEM's have made some major mistakes over the past 5-10 years.

One is that they have lost touch with the everyday trail riders. They have put way too much into building the 'fastest' sled, and way too much into hyping a few prima donna sno cross racers. They have put way to little marketing efforts into getting the NON-Snowmobilers into our sport. We can't keep living off of the remaining 'die-hard' sledders. We have to get the industry as a whole to start marketing through different venues to those that have the spendable income (40+).

It's like what the trade magazines, (like the one that owns this sight) has done in going after Truck Buyers in the Snowmobile Trades.

Yamaha is doing this, and whether you are a Yamaha fan or not, but they continue to 'think outside the box.' Not only in Snowmobile Technology, but also in marketing. I doubt you will see Yamaha buying ads in a Snowmobile Trade publication blasting SDI or DI. they have way too much 'class' for that!

by **wnynewbie** » February 1st, 2006, 5:24 am

Isn't lunch time great? yoo you make some good points. you could say the same for GM, put dale Jr's name on the side of a piece of junk and everyone buys it. because as we all know, that 6 cylinder front wheel drive 4 door with optional xm radio and special paint is the same as the one he will roll out in daytona in 2 weeks. i don't care what anyone says the monte is a piece of junk and why you'd drop 25-30 grand on that wrather than the charger or 300 or even a 3 series bmw is beyond me. i never owned a vehicle with a tag other than Chevy until this summer, and it this point i may never go back. ok a little off topic sorry. i think a smart thing to do for all the oem's would be show up at the x-games and get some demos out, show off the back country riding that area of the country is famous for. go to car shows, get a tv show thats nationwide (speed channel, espn, discovery) actitively market your stuff to people that could care less. 10 years ago people wouldn't give jesse james $10 for a bike, now he's a freakin millionaire with a 2 year waiting list charging $100,000 plus for a FREAKIN MOTORCYCLE. i'd be one hot lookin sob on one of those by the way. ok i'm way off the topic here, sorry. i should just eat lunch and get back to work.

by **alrightythen** » February 2nd, 2006, 3:32 am

wny...people are starved for attention....positive or negative...all still kids at heart I guess.
That's why Dale Jr. or Blair Morgan wantabe's purchase the status symbol rides, some how I guess that connects them to their "hero's". We all know that's BS, but it still works for the manufacturers and get those starved for attention, the attention they are seeking.(ie..loud pipes)
I'm not telling you anything you don't already know, and most of us in some way shape or form are all guilty of it. Our favorite football team apparrel or whatever our passion may be.

by **DrDSanchez** » February 2nd, 2006, 9:01 am

by **OldCatRacer** » February 2nd, 2006, 10:59 am

It's called the Walter Mitty syndrome. People buy and pay unreal prices for replica items and yes they have all gone mad over what they think those ill handling choppers cost. Back to the subject as MM said most riders can't go as fast as the sled. 600's are more than enough. I know, I've taken way less sleds in the trail and embarrased alot of so called fast riders on big iron when I had a so called 'lil440 or 500. I still want to go as fast as I can but I have no problem with just cruising along on a 4 stroke. If all of a sudden they only could build a nice ride and handling 60mph sled I'd be happy. When I raced years ago it was fun during the week to take the Jags and TrailCats out on the river and have a blast. Sure I got my kicks at the ovals on weekends but it was fun to putt along Once again I hope the companies don't go in debt trying to please the minority. I also think they should have way more demo rides at a lot of places. I know if I ran Cat I'd be doing that.