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snowmobile flotation

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snowmobile flotation

Postby jwassoc » January 2nd, 2002, 9:46 am

Minnesota's first snowmobile through the ice death occurred last night, Jan 1. A man and his 80 year old father went through on Lake Mille Lacs. Only the son made it out alive.
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snowmobile flotation

Postby polarisman415 » January 2nd, 2002, 12:06 pm

Ok now im going to start posting reports on how many people make it off the lake safly JW. This is stupid. Like I said, Just dont go on if its not safe. I bet most of these people that are drowning were the 1st ones on the pond. Its pretty simple, you have to be stupid to be driving on the ice at 2inch's. I wouldent even walk on it. I feel bad for those people but they shouldnt have been riding on it!!!
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snowmobile flotation

Postby jwassoc » January 3rd, 2002, 2:16 am

There were trucks pulling fishing shacks out on Lake Mille Lacs before the accident. Mille Lacs is a huge lake and they may have gone in near a pressure ridge. There is open water d**n near all winter if you are unlucky enough to find it. Polarisman415 has been lucky so far.
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snowmobile flotation

Postby Tantrum » January 3rd, 2002, 5:07 am

Just a quick question. Why are some of these posts so apposed to safety advances in the sport? No where has it been said (and it would take years of government legislation, NOT ) that there is a push to make these types of devices mandatory at the manufacturing level. If there is local legislation than get of your ass and go to the meeting and voice an intelligent position. No one is going to make you buy these devices, I already said I would not. Don't you think a father with young riders or safety sensitive people might want these options. Im not selling, promoting or in any way involved with this or any other products, I would just hope that we could all have a bit of an open mind.
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snowmobile flotation

Postby jwassoc » January 3rd, 2002, 2:04 pm

A lot of riders are opposed to this idea because they know it may eventually add cost to their sleds. There was similar opposition to automobile airbags, even seatbelts when they were first developed. It is the old "that won't happen to me" syndrome. But now we all drive around in cars with airbags and we feel safer. We are trying to keep the cost of the device under 10% of the cost of a new sled. That way if the major manufacturers ever offer the device as an option you won't really notice the difference. Although it costs us $700 to manufacture the device, the major manufacturers have purchasing power so they could build our system for $200 in parts. 50 people a year die this way in the US and Canada alone, so we think the idea is worth pursuing.
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snowmobile flotation

Postby jwassoc » January 7th, 2002, 7:42 am

A test of the device was performed last Saturday on Cass Lake for 100 Sheriff's deputies, Search and Rescue members, Department of Natural Resources officers and local Police officers and the like. The system is presently being installed on 6 Sheriff department snowmobiles.
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snowmobile flotation

Postby kenlacy » January 7th, 2002, 8:21 am

Tantrum - thats fine - just make it an option and not a requirement. That would just be the beginning, then someone is gonna come up with a new bumper that goes around the whole sled and that will add only 10% more and then they will come up with another thing that will only add 10% more and next thing you know you are taking out a 30 yr loan on your sled. This is taking it a little far but we do not need more regulation. give people their choice and be done with it. As for comparing it to seat belts or airbags is a bad comparison.

The percentages are way off - the seat belt and Airbag will affect probably 70% (7 out of 10 ) of their users over their lifetime - where this device would only affect maybe .5% (1 in 200) of its users over their lifetime.
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snowmobile flotation

Postby Tantrum » January 8th, 2002, 1:13 am

kenlacy,
I understand your point and your right about the bad comparisons to seatbelts and airbags. That is why I dont think they could ever make the manufactures include them as standard. Not everyone has the same application, namely water crossing. The point I was trying to make is if we dont do, do diligence to make our sport safer, we will have some wacko regulators trying to do it for us caliming its in our best interest. Thats when I lose my s#%t, when some regulatory schm%$K, wants to spend my money (tax dollars) to do whats "best for me". Lets not give them the argument we cant do it ourselves.
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snowmobile flotation

Postby jwassoc » January 8th, 2002, 1:38 am

We think the air bag comparison is a good one. Would anyone want to purchase an automobile for their son or daughter without an airbag? Probably not. At least here in Minnesota, anyone who snowmobiles will cross frozen water. Thats probably true for a lot of Wisconsin riders as well. If the snowmobile flotation device becomes a standard option on new snowmobiles, many parents won't hesitate to spend an extra few hundred dollars to protect their kid should the sled break through the ice. Many people did not like the seatbelt or the airbag when they became law, but the majority of drivers appreciated these safety features. The flotation device will first be used in law enforcement and search and rescue. This will allow us to further test the device in a controlled situation before marketing it to the general public.
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snowmobile flotation

Postby Tantrum » January 8th, 2002, 3:02 am

Its a good comparison to say its a safty device filled with air. Its effectivness and application are not at all the same (atleast that we know).
1) If my car comes to a very abrupt stop, my body is going to continue moving in its original direction (simple physics) usually forward. An airbag or seat belt will help distrubute the impact of my body and the dashboard or windshield. Statistics prove, and common sense tells me this is pretty much how it will go down.
I dont see breaking through ice as being that predictable.
2)Statistically I "will" be involved in a motor vehical accident. I dont believe the odds of me falling though the ice are comparable.
3)Cost of airbags/seat belts are not proportional to your device. Your number was 10% of the MSRP. My new Tahoe does not have a $4500.00 airbag in it Im sure.
Before I run to far with this, because I have no expertise, nor have I seen any statistical numbers, Im just using common sense,
To jawssoc
What are the numbers?
How many people break through the ice per year?
How many people drown?
How many registered snowmobiles are out there?
Which states have the highest number of incedences?
What is the percentage of area that we ride covered by lakes?
Any other interesting numbers you have found?
Oh yeah, what is your interest in this product?
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