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USSA Champ 440 Rule Change

USSA Champ 440 Rule Change

Postby CoryEwingdeactivated » March 31st, 2007, 2:48 pm

I hope all of you know this is just another way to screw up a great class.

Classes USSA has monkeyed with in the past and result:

Mod III- Very exciting class, was kind of like Champ 440 today. USSA allowed Ski-Doo to build special 500cc motors for Mike Houle and Jim Schmidt that were not legal manufactured motors. Nobody else could get them. Class was won only by one of the two drivers for next 2 years and eventually was dropped.

Pro Sprint (56 Horsepower class)- A lot of drivers in this class. USSA though created a class that was untechable. How do you test HP at the track. Most drivers cheated and class was eventually dropped.

Pro Sprint (500cc air-cooled class)- Great class for 7 years. Almost 40 entries at ER in '98. USSA allowed certain drivers to run 440 reed motors with 34mm carbs instead of 30mm they were supposed to run. Class ended up needing restructuring to what it is today, STILL A MESS.

Formula III- The manufacturer's class. Top dog class when it came to spectators relating to their hopped up trail sleds. Great class to watch. Just like Mod III, USSA sure didn't help when the manufacturer's were only giving certain guys any kind of decent equipment. For heavens sake, Ski-Doo made a Formula III MODEL just so they could clean house in that class. Yes, I know Brian Sturgeon beat Mike Houle in 1996 at ER, but was he ever teched? The cheating that USSA allowed in that class throughout the years was ridiculous. Remember when Guy Useldinger won ER from the back row? I don't think he was ever teched either. Anyways, all said and done, class petered out too.

Formula I- 35-45 entries every year at ER. USSA created Champ 440 to replace it. Champ has never had the numbers, the follwing, or the excitement that FI did since. Big reason Ice Racing has slowly ended up to where we are today.

Maybe SABOTAGE is the right word I am looking for in all of this. Makes me wonder why USSA still has a race circuit. You'd think if they wanted out, they would, JUST GET OUT!

My thoughts and beliefs.

Cory Ewing

Posts: 72
Joined: January 27th, 2003, 8:18 am
Location: Big Lake, MN

USSA Champ 440 Rule Change

Postby watcher » March 31st, 2007, 3:39 pm


Posts: 248
Joined: October 8th, 2002, 1:29 am
Location: where is waldo

USSA Champ 440 Rule Change

Postby 124blizzard » April 1st, 2007, 12:36 am

Cory - are you a Republican or Democrat??
Posts: 19
Joined: March 3rd, 2004, 1:53 pm
Location: Vt.

USSA Champ 440 Rule Change

Postby that 31 car » April 1st, 2007, 1:12 am

I'll take them one at a time.
Combined weight, not wanted by Me, asked for at ISR rules meeting last year by Dave Wahl and others. Now that there's a little heat flying around, the guys who asked for it to be considered ain't saying much. More fun to let me catch the heat, I guess. I offered to do the data collection rather than ratify it right then and there without any study. After data collection was done showed at our (USSA) spring convention. Driver discussion lent to board deciding to vote to reccommend at ISR meeting. Since then there has been some inclination to reconsider. Still a long way off till May. By the way, Marcel,Wally and I requested a five year lock on rules for the class, which will be reviewed this year, so now tell me how I am ruining the class. The way you tell it, I'm probably responsible for the Cart /Indy car deal too.

Mod III: Mod III engines were legal at the time, and were not one-off's.Limited availability yes, but not only the two you suggest. Besides that class ran in other associations at the time and each association had it's designated SKi Doo stars. CCMQ/Scm had theirs, OSRF when still running had their guys. Remember there still was factory participation at that time.When ever you have factory participation you have a special chosen few. Even in Snow cross right now, even with teams being privately held, some teams are more blessed than other's.

Pro Sprint 56 HP. Don't even try to hang that deal on USSA, you know better than that.Engines were certified 56 HP by a dyno process observed by ISR.Class was a core class that all oval associations needed to offer.Class came from the 56hp derivative from cross country racing of the day.In fact USSA was treatened with an injunction when it wanted to drop the class due to it being grossly unfair to the competitors. Call Tom Rager if you want to verify, he was Ski Doo sales at the time, but he knows the story as he was directed to do the follow up with me.. I went so far in trying to curb it that Ski Doo brought Hueitzinger over from Rotax during the derby, just to verify construction and specs.Your perception and history lesson is badly skewed on this deal.

Pro SPrint 500. If you want to blame that one on me, fair enough, I'll take it. But do you really think the class would still be viable with piston port 503's only?

Formula III: Was a manufacturers controlled class and you know it. Olav, I and the Gara's wrote the first rules, but frankly we lost all control as soon as the manufacturers decided it was the showcase class, which was immediately after announcement. You are still tight with Olav, make a call, ask for the history, see if he feel's USSA had any power over the class once it was endorsed by the factory's. Your suggestion that USSA had some sort of control over how that went is ridiculous. Ask Ole Tweet the names he called me when I objected to the changes, Ask Chester how he manuvered the class, ask Gordy Muetz the Yamaha position, ask Ray Monsrud the Polaris position. Those guys were the race managers of the time, and they had lots to do with it, along with their marketing departments. They all found that if they only had two guys each, that was all they needed, plus even they were set back by the money spent to get the job done. It was a factory showcase and and was never meant to be anything else. Ask anybody who ever raced it besides the factory supported select. For a few years others ran it, only to find they were not in the hunt equipment wise or budget wise. The Scheer's and Sperry had some real good one's but they were not still the chosen Polaris stuff, Arctic had some others at first also, but it got down to Brian real quick. On this one your history is dead wrong as to USSA causing anything to happen, problem was we couldn't cause anything to happen to stop it.

Formula I: USSA did not create Champ, Champ was created after Ski Doo decided to abandon the twin track program. One, because they were the only guys in it, and two because in the marketing groups mind it ran it's course. The other two factory's , Polaris and Arctic wanted a more recognizable form of sled and the directive out of manufacturers meetings was to create a single track class for the current engine platform of the time, which was 440. The rules were done at ISR with contributions by all involved.

My belief's and having lived through it.
Jerry Korinek
that 31 car
Posts: 82
Joined: February 15th, 2002, 9:06 am
Location: Next to the big swamp. Menchalville, WI.

USSA Champ 440 Rule Change

Postby huey2430 » April 1st, 2007, 2:56 am

Looks like Cory voted Red!!!

In all reality, his statements are not that far off----now by the same token, neither are that of the "31 Car". If you read between the lines--you will see the word "manufacturer" in everyone of these classes. I can assure you-----when the manufacturer gets involved, it will get and stay screwed up. They even will admit it between themselves---but more than likely would much rather have pin cushions like Jerry K to take the heat while they sip on their toddy and let the internet and rumor mill run its course.

Looking from the outside----the quicker you COMPLETELY separate yourself from any influence the manufacturing group can have on you, the better off you will be. Keep in mind--this influence can be that of specific classes, premier drivers, parts availability, models of sleds or simply "WE WANT THIS" type of influence. You need to be fully independent.

It appears snowmobile racing across the country has two real good core classes today---that of F-500 and Champ 440. Personally I do not even know what the specific rules are in either of the above classes and I certainly do not care. But I can assure you if I owned either of these vehicles, I would really wonder how many dollars some group of idiots decisions in a room in Milwaukee may cost me in the upcoming seasons----just so I could continue to spend 15k per winter and participate in a sport I love. Why on earth would any one want to change them?

Stay the course Cory and Jerry--you are both saying the same thing--but with a different spin.

Couldn't resist Jerry, you know I have been in the same room in MKE!!

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Joined: September 28th, 2005, 2:52 pm
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USSA Champ 440 Rule Change

Postby SPEEDSLUT » April 1st, 2007, 5:06 am

I can speak for certain that the 56 HP rule was a joke ; I owned a 50 build (that was a joke in and of its self) 1985 PRO STOCK SKI-DOO that I bought from Todd Elmer (that might date me) at the time it was certified @ 56 hp it would barely run; the timing was so retarded, the jets were so rich and the engine was so detuned just to get under the 56 hp rule it was pathetic. After the certifaction the timing was cranked back up , it was leaned back down and the thing ripped, HP was over 80, It was one of the torquiest motors I ever had, hand built pipe, and was basicly an all out race chassies (derailed every weekend though).

Rules and weights arent the problem, quit changing them, promote the sport, and JUST RACE!
Posts: 59
Joined: January 14th, 2002, 10:16 am
Location: MN.

USSA Champ 440 Rule Change

Postby lugsharvey » April 1st, 2007, 11:43 am

As one of the "idiots in Milwaukee" more than once, I feel qualified to jump in here.
1. You can't have it both ways, if it's important to the manufacturers they will spend themselves crazy, until ANOTHER manufacturer out does them, then manufacturer #1 points their finger at the sanctioning body and says "they have let costs get out of control". Doesn't matter what form of racing, believe me.
2. Class structure is in my opinion a complete mess right now, now offence to anyone. When I began in the late eighties, there were 4 stock classes, 3 mods, and the top 5 open classes (F-250, F-340, Sprint, F-1, F-111). No semi-pro, no confusing names, just straight forward PROFESSIONAL racing.
Week 1- I line up against Wergin, Nicholsen, Devaults, etc., and proceed to race my ass off for a year, beating the big guns regularly by end of season. There was no whining, no semi-pro, NO HOT LAPS, and none of this nonsense of "a class for everyone" If you wanted to be percieved as a top line pro, you showed up and raced against them, period.
3. F-3 dwindled out for wahtever reason, but it was exciting, and I always felt that USSA, and Jerry in particular, would have prefered it to be the WC class, and it probably had merit to be so.
4. F-1 was shrinking big time when we lost the Sport series $$$, so it really made sense to try another course, what Jerry hasn't said was that the manufacturers stated they would collectively back the class, which didn't happen in the timeframe or manner they represented.
5. Thank Jerry Korinek, he has put up with this******from every self-serving racer (including me) for way too long, I sure wouldn't have been able to.
6. I re-state- A world Snowmobile Championship is the most cost-efficient world title to chase, and the numbers still shrink, as does snowmobile sales worldwide. Dumbing it down will likely not help.
Just a few thoughts.
Tony Ave
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Joined: July 6th, 2006, 3:49 pm
Location: Mooresville, North Carolina

USSA Champ 440 Rule Change

Postby twister 250 » April 1st, 2007, 12:35 pm

Do you remember a person on this site named USSA Sucks/USSA Hater? Well if it isn't you, you should find him and give him a call. I believe you two would make a wonderful couple, not only do you share the same feelings of the longest running, most professional ice oval racing circuit, you are also both complete A$$holes! You come on here and spout off like your so intelligent you have nothing to stand on. Think a little before you post on here again.

P.S You better include Brad with you and USSA Sucks, I bet hes into that sort of thing:W

twister 250
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Location: Fond doo Lake

USSA Champ 440 Rule Change

Postby watcher » April 1st, 2007, 12:48 pm

DON'T BRING HIM (USSA Sucks/USSA Hater) BACK, WE DON'T MISS HIM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Posts: 248
Joined: October 8th, 2002, 1:29 am
Location: where is waldo

USSA Champ 440 Rule Change

Postby USSA Sucks » April 1st, 2007, 2:46 pm


Dont worry about these guys, finally theres a young gun that agrees with me for once.....Im so called the childest person to ever grace this site but yet im not the one on here calling people Gay! GROW UP TWISTER!!!!!!
USSA Sucks
Joined: April 24th, 2006, 9:41 am
Location: Pro-Ice Heaven, MN


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