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Valcourt Questions Please on #180

Valcourt Questions Please on #180

Postby OvalsareFAST » February 21st, 2008, 2:35 am

So what happened to the 180 sled of Dolezal???? I heard he went in the bales sunday, but won on saturday than got DQ after the race for TI front shock springs. He has been running these for years and got teched at eagle river with them on CPTC also and many other races with these same springs, how come now they are illegal at one race???

Also heard it was the guy that took last or 2nd to last in the race that protested him????? so he moved up to 6 or 7th form last ummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm what did that do.
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Valcourt Questions Please on #180

Postby Brian Mulligan » February 21st, 2008, 3:01 am

Check your ISR rulebook on page 19 (track suspension -no.5).The rule is clearly stated.The EPT tech personel has always been known to be fair and unbias.Just ask around.
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Valcourt Questions Please on #180

Postby AHF928 » February 21st, 2008, 3:43 am

My notes show him second on Sunday and Friday. I know the guys that finished from 6 thru 9 and I doubt any would have protested or for that matter known they were not legal by just looking at them.

As far as how they got through tech at other events, I guess you would have to ask them.
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Valcourt Questions Please on #180

Postby proton » February 21st, 2008, 4:03 am

In the ISR rule book look on page 19 it says "only steel springs alowed UNLESS OTHERWISE SPECIFIED....look on page 49 of the oval sprint section under "Ski suspensions and steering"..item 2, titanium springs are allowed in modified classes. then look further on to the "track suspension" item 2, titanium springs are allowed in modified classes...was 180 DQ'ed for champ or stock.
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Valcourt Questions Please on #180

Postby Petawawarace » February 21st, 2008, 6:05 am

He was Dq'd in the stock 600 class I believe and it was on Saturday.
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Valcourt Questions Please on #180

Postby SPEEDSLUT » February 21st, 2008, 11:30 am

Pretty sure Nick could win with BED springs in the machine,Although rules are rules it sucks that he got called on it.
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Valcourt Questions Please on #180

Postby SCM PRES. » February 21st, 2008, 4:14 pm

Nick was DQ'd because of titanium springs in Pro Stock 600, on Saturday (we did not race that class on Friday).

The rule book is very clear on that rule, it was an easy decision.

That does not mean that Nick is a cheater. I discussed with him and Mike Houle after it happenned. It seemed to me that they did not notice that this rule was changed a few years ago. When I showed them the ISR YEARBOOK, they realized their mistake.

Plus, if they had wanted to cheat, they would have painted those titanium springs... Just a look at it and it was obvious.

I told them that it was better to know it on Saturday because on Sunday, that same class was the MILLENIUM/V-FORCE class and it would penalize a lot more.

Nick's team fixed the problem and on Sunday, he was unlucky: he visited the hay bales in that class.

Nick is the MILLENIUM/V-FORCE overall CHAMPION in the Pro Stock 600.

Congratulation Nick and see you again in EPT.

On EPT, we don't like to DQ drivers. We only want them to know the rules and have an even "playing field" for all participants.

Now, why the other techs didn't mention the problem to Nick??? Sometime, a tech will look at different things in the short period of time they have during the races. If a tech was spending 1 hour per sled in the tech booth, checking the same sled, there would probably be more warnings or DQ drivers...

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Valcourt Questions Please on #180

Postby that 31 car » February 21st, 2008, 5:10 pm

Under General snowmobile rules # 5, page 19 specifies "only steel suspension springs allowed unless otherwise specified."
In Oval Stock rules, Page 50 # 6 under ski suspension and #1 under track suspension allow alteration, relocation, and replacement. We (USSA) always allowed the springs under this criteria, perhaps we were wrong. Definitely a issue to clear up at ISR this spring. The instructions I gave our tech was the requirements for stock racing as far as suspension goes, over ruled the general rules and allowed the change. I can see how Brian used the other method of interpretation and said first you must meet the general rules. Rules are rules, and if that how they are interpreted, so be it. Brian and Marcel are extremely fair in how they operate, so I really don't have a issue with it, except that we will need to clarify it at ISR this spring. Nick deserves at least the clarification, no matter how it comes out. Nick has been a sportsmanlike fair racer all of his years at USSA, while at times Nick and I differed on opinions, I have always found him and his team, honest and above board. If blame needs to be set, than our interpretation of the rule is part of the blame, as we always allowed Nick and all other Pro Stockers to use various set ups per the oval sprint rules. When stock suspensions became obsolete in oval racing, we made the interpretation change that we felt was correct, allowing Wahl, Houle, and other set up's to compete as the platform for stock oval racing. I'm sure Pro Ice used the same format as some of their racers when visiting us, had similar set ups.
We will work to clarify this at the Spring session.
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Valcourt Questions Please on #180

Postby Brian Mulligan » February 22nd, 2008, 1:04 am

Claude Paiement is tech for S.C.M. since many years.

Claude and I double checked the 2008 ISR YEARBOOK before making the final decision. Here is exactly why we DQ'd Nick.

As Jerry wrote, under General snowmobile rules #5, p.19 specifies "only steel suspension springs allowed unless otherwise specified".

In Oval Sprint Competition section, p.49, General Snowmobile requirements, Ski suspension #2 and track suspension #2, the book says "Titanium springs allowed in all modified classes." This part of the book overrules p.19 and allows titanium springs in MODIFIED classes, THEY DON'T SAY THAT THEY ALLOWS IT IN STOCK CLASSES. Our decision was based on that part of the book.

On page 50, #6 under ski suspension and #1 under track suspension, the book allows alteration, relocation and replacement. THE BOOK STILL DOES NOT SAY THAT TITANIUM SPRINGS ARE ALLOWED IN STOCK CLASSES...

Plus, p. 50, Stock rules, 1st column at the top, the book says: "In Stock and stock based classes, no change or modification is allowed unless specifically allowed by these rules. If these rules do not specifically allow a change or modification, then it must be assumed that the change or modification is not allowed."

For Claude and myself, there was NO interpretation possible.

Now, at the 2008 ISR spring rules meeting, we will bring that titanium spring rule on the agenda. If the affiliates decide and vote to change the rule, we will change it.

Finally, the more I look at the decision we made, the more I think we took the decision that had to be made, according to the book.

Marcel Fontaine
S.C.M. Pres.

Sorry for this long and very technical explanation.
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Valcourt Questions Please on #180

Postby Brian Mulligan » February 22nd, 2008, 1:07 am

Sorry for the confusion it may create.

I am on Brian Mulligan's computer at his house. This is why it shows the reply by Brian.

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