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F-600

F-600

Postby Pipe dream racing » March 18th, 2010, 1:47 pm

Howard bring up the sportsman "rough rules" at the banquet I know of more than a few guys that would love to try champ without being wallup'ed the first time out by the fierce competition there now.

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F-600

Postby Fontaine Racing » March 18th, 2010, 3:28 pm

guys look in the Isr rule book,and think about it.
you have f 600 right now, Its called limited 600, and limited 600 Is basicly the old champ lite rules, with a few tweeks to TRY to keep it cheaper?
As mr Ave pointed out we should have a class for anyone to fit into? lets try to fill the classes we have, and keep things simple.
Jeff I think you will agree with me that at least three (that come to mind right now) F500 riders ended up on a champer? Yourself, McCurdy Jr., and Trevor, and I know I am missing some one else from the EPT. (sorry)
point beeing, we have F500, F600,Champ light, sport champ, or whatever you want to call them? Just have to build to F 500, or F 600 rules. or have more fun with a little less money-sportsman 600.
just my 2 cents.
I realy dont believe we need any more classes? just ask the (confused)fans in the stands.we should start thinking about them also?
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Postby Spy-Guy 74 » March 18th, 2010, 3:47 pm

Doug your correct limited 600 would be a great class for people that wanted to move up from F-500. I would leave the rules exactly the way Regional USSA Limited 600 ran them the past year. Keep the rules exactly the same for the next five years and the class will grow too. Plenty of older four bar champ chassis laying around without the exotic metals and a stock chain case too and made for a great handling sled a few years back. Remember no wiggle room on the rules, it will only make the class fail before it gets fully established.
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Postby lugsharvey » March 18th, 2010, 3:49 pm

Not exactly sure what you mean by Champ being more competitive now, it certainly isn't near as deep as F1 was, they had to go to 18 sled finals in 93 (I think) because we were constantly sending so many sleds home from the Sport Series races. Add to that, and Jerry K can probably remember the year, but the 56 hp Pro Sprint class had nearly 40 entries at Eagle. We wore carbides out just running through eliminations. The stock classes were brutal too. The top Champ guys are awesome now too, there just isn't as many of them.

There was snowcross, but I will give you this: The sleds then were really not fun to race. Heavy, poor handling, etc. They were actually better suited to ovals. I think that is really the issue. Stock sleds now are snowcross race ready, and its become sort of the 'in' thing, in my opinion because of TV, and things like the x games. So, thats why the ovals have hit a bump in the road, its pretty specialized and the manufacturers don't feel like they need it like they did when I raced.

However, don't make the mistake of structuring everything for those that can't afford to race. Big mistake. We need to make the events more appealing to those who can afford it.
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F-600

Postby lugsharvey » March 18th, 2010, 4:01 pm

OK Howard I re-read your posts and would like to offer that IMO, if semi Pro Champ is too tough for someone wanting to head in that direction, can they not run Pro Sprint (or its semi pro version)? Sure its expensive and you will have to switch engines for a move to Champ, but by its nature Champ to me really isn't an investment level for a sportsmen type of racer. I have been away awhile, so you probably have your thumb on the pulse more than me, but all I see coming would be a very few sleds turning up. I say send 'em into semi pro, or spend some time in Pro Sprint, or the like.
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Postby Spy-Guy 74 » March 18th, 2010, 6:58 pm

Well Tony the constant rule changes year after year in Pro-Sprint has killed the class period. Maybe one, two, and at best three sleds in a final and thats not really racing in my eyes or most fans. Really have not had great numbers since going away with Pro-Sprint 503 rotax and the rules that were in place for the other engines in that era. The changing of rules year after year has had more negative impact on ovals than any other thing that I can see. Make the rules and no changes period, for five years for every class. All the safety factors are in place, the rules don't need switching around year after year. All associations should come on board and stick to the very same rules, and follow them through.
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Postby huey2430 » March 19th, 2010, 1:05 am

Spy--I think we should ban "Rules Meetings". Every spring these supposed meetings and the respective changes that come out of them only Cost the Drivers Money while Costing the organazations members and participants. :) Keep in mind everyone, you do not need addtional classes, you need additional drivers. TB
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Postby drivergus » March 19th, 2010, 2:44 pm

IMO the stock classes have all but disappeared.Thats a big problem.Its no wonder why i have heard fans talk about sleds they can't identify with anymore.Everything is Wahl chassis,Hooper,etc.Specially built for racing type of equipment.And thats fine BUT ! how bout "stock".
Tony is correct.The older sleds that were used in there time for slocross were more suited to ovals than bumps and jumps.Now its backwards.The "stock sleds"are ready to go out and bump and jump and a pain in the rump to set up to go around corners.Not to mention the cost.
I must say i was bummed out when the rules for sportsman 600 were changed to include sleds made up to 1998...then year 2000.Pretty much made my piston ported 1995 xcr 600 an antique.So now it sits in my shop in pieces,ready to be sold off as parts.That was IMO the downturn of sportsman600.It should have been kept @1995 and NO special "500" build sleds allowed.changing the model years and allowing special 500 builds just opened pandoras box.I suppose i can go out and find a 2000 year sled,but how long will the rules stay the same for that?Then i end up with another antique sled sitting in the shop ready to be sold for parts.
What appealed to me to try sportsman 600 in the first place was its inexpensive way for a guy to race without mortgaging the house.At 45 years old my racing days are numbered so i have NO desire to race champ.Nor do i want to spend that kind of money.If i wanted to spend spend spend.I can buy a limited late model car for 8-10g's and race every week for $20 at my local track.No hotels,no huge fuel bills,etc. and probably come home with a decent payout even if i don't win.At least enough to cover the fuel bill or maybe a tire or two.
Bring back some form of stock racing!!! with stock chassis.limited 600 is just another specialty chassis class. Just my $.02
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F-600

Postby lugsharvey » March 19th, 2010, 4:00 pm

Well I guess I would then say stabilize Pro Sprint rather than start another class. If that can't happen, phase it out. Otherwise the class count will keep rising.
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Postby drivergus » March 19th, 2010, 4:04 pm

i forgot.....I have to disagree with you Tony in that structuring everything towards those who can afford to run is narrowing your scope of those who can participate.Especially in these economic times your hoping for a miracle.The economic times is why alot of folks just can't race period.Care to chime in Watcher???
look at NASCAR.The stands are looking pretty empty these days.I have to believe its because people just can't afford to pay for a ticket ,hotel,fuel to get there ,etc.I've had tickets to the brickyard 400 since 2003 and went every year.Just can't do it anymore ! Poor Joie Chitwood keeps sending me offers ,but we just can't spend the cash.Its a luxury now,that my family just can't afford.
If you don't structure things towards the little guy.The number of drivers will continue to shrink.
If we could stop the f-ing corporations from sending our damn jobs to china,india,etc.
Maybe We'd all be able to drive champs !! and put more butts in the stands.
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