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36+ Champs racing for the WC in 2012 ???

36+ Champs racing for the WC in 2012 ???

Postby jhooper/HRE » March 1st, 2011, 2:03 am

I have another radical idea that will solve our low entry problem in Champ IF we just have the courage to implement it.
I just came up with this while I was posting about track rules for the Outlaw 600 class so it's a little rough but certainly can be done. I know a lot of current Champ racers will hate this one but here goes.
We could quite easily design a set of rules for "Champ option B"
this sled would have very similar rules to F-500 with a different spec motor similar to the Outlaw 600 motor rules.
This sled would have NO TITANIUM or other exotic materials, you would be allowed to fabricate your own chassis BUT it would need to be virtually the same as the current F-500 and weigh 400 lbs. If we implemented something like this as well as the new Outlaw 600 we would create more excitement than our sport has seen in a couple decades.
John H.
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36+ Champs racing for the WC in 2012 ???

Postby that 31 car » March 1st, 2011, 3:22 am

John: the class is already there. Limited 500 and limited 600 are exactly what you speak of. Stock engines, no Titanium, weight could be adjusted up if needed.
Korinek
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36+ Champs racing for the WC in 2012 ???

Postby that 31 car » March 1st, 2011, 3:27 am

John, here are the Limited 600 rules. Limited 500 is virtually the same. I posted 600 only.
Thanks
GENERAL RULES
NOTICE: These rules are in force for 5 years from 1 Jun 09 to 1 Jun 14. Carburation/EFI may be reviewed at any time.
Chassis shall be an Open Sprint style chassis, either production or hand built.
The snowmobile must meet all applicable safety and general criteria in this section and in the General Rules and Regulations section of the current ISR Yearbook.
1. Engine, Chassis, and Hood need not match.
2. Minimum weight is 350 pounds.
3. Maximum width is 45 inches overall.
4. By entering the class, the competitor agrees that any chassis or engine components which to not comply to rules may be confiscated by the sanctioning body.
ENGINE
1. The engine must be from a stock qualified liquid cooled model with a single exhaust pipe and a maximum displacement of 600 cc. Allowed modifications to the engine are listed below. No other modifications are allowed.
2. Engine must conform to the 15-year rule.
3. Air Box/air induction piping may be removed.
4. OEM factory wye "Y" pipe for the engine must be used.
5. OEM Exhaust expansion chamber must be used. Allowable modifications to the expansion chamber are as follows:
a. After muffler/silencer canister may be removed.
b. Exhaust stinger may be modified or changed.
c. The expansion chamber proper must be maintained with no modifications. This is subject to the Technical Director's decision and may not be appealed.
d. Exhaust must be functionally silenced.
e. Chassis design must accommodate the exhaust system, no changes to the exhaust system for chassis fit are allowed.
6. Oil injection pump may be removed.
7. OEM production carburetors for the model and year or OEM EFI system for the model and year must be used with no modifications except filed tuning components.
8. The OEM engine-cooling concept must be maintained.
9. Engine mounting plates and configuration may be modified or changed.
10.No additional modifications to the stock (as produced) engine are allowed.
DRIVE
1. Any commercially available CVT type drive and or driven clutch system may be used.
2. No lightweight components allowed.
3. No titanium jackshafts, axle shafts, or any other rotating component except clutch springs are allowed.
4. A chaincase/gearcase from any OEM stock qualified model may be used. (Diamond drive/Arctic Cat systems are allowed.) Chain case original origin must be declared during technical inspection if requested by technical inspector. Failure to declare will result in disqualification without appeal privileges. Chaincase may be modified to accept non OEM brake caliper.
5. Clutch guard must conform to General Oval rules for modified snowmobiles.
6. Commercially available hydraulic brakes only. Stock OEM brake discs only.
7. No lightweight brake discs.
8. No wave brake discs.
9. Brake discs may be mounted on jackshaft or front drive axle.
10. Liquid cooled brakes allowed.
SKI SUSPENSION AND STEERING
1. Minimum of 2 inches of useable vertical travel required and must be maintained during operation.
2. Shock absorbers must be Fox gas charged hydraulic shocks. Shocks may be revalveable.
3. No external adjusters except "clicker" adjusters allowed. No remote reservoirs shocks allowed.
4. No air spring/ "float" shocks allowed.
5. No electronically monitored or controlled shocks allowed.
6 .Any shock determined to not be in "the spirit of the rule" must be removed and replaced with a conforming shock absorber. Technical inspector's determination is final.
SKIS & SKI RUNNERS
1. Skis and ski runners must conform to General Rules for Oval Sprint Racing.
TRACK SUSPENSION
2. Shock absorbers must be Fox gas charged hydraulic shocks. Shocks may be revalveable.
3. No external adjusters except "clicker" adjusters allowed. No remote reservoirs allowed.
4. No air spring/ "float" shocks allowed.
5. No electronically monitored or controlled shocks allowed.
6. Any shock determined to not be in the "spirit of the rule" must be removed and replaced with a conforming shock absorber. The technical inspector's determination is final.
7. Maximum diameter eight (8) inch rear idler wheels.
8 . No titanium shafts/ titanium allowed anywhere in the suspension.
9. Suspension must use a production based slide rail. Slide rail origin must be declared when requested by the technical inspector. Failure to declare origin will result in disqualification without appeal privileges.
TRACK AND TRACTION
1. Track must be "R" rated commercially available one-piece molded rubber track.
2. Minimum length is 116 inches. Maximum is 121 inches.
3. Minimum width is 15 inches.
4. Any track wear clip combination is legal.

FRAME AND BODY
1. A rear tunnel enclosure is mandatory.
2. Hood must be an OEM production or OEM replica. Hood must not be modified in any manner that prevents it from being recognized as a current production model snowmobile.
3. No carbon fiber is allowed anywhere on the snowmobile.
4. Any belly pan/lower body allowed.
IGNITION & ELECTRICAL
1. Ignition system must be OEM for the model engine.
2. An approved LED taillight must be illuminated whenever the snowmobile is on the racing surface, whether the engine is running or not.
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36+ Champs racing for the WC in 2012 ???

Postby jhooper/HRE » March 1st, 2011, 3:45 am

Jerry, I guess I didn't make the point clear that these new rules would allow the "option B" sleds to compete head to head with current Champs, not a seperate class. John H.
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36+ Champs racing for the WC in 2012 ???

Postby jhooper/HRE » March 1st, 2011, 5:40 am

Another racer suggested we make "OPTION B" exactly the same chassis and weight rules as F500 along with the Champ engine rules w/36 or 38 mm carbs because of the slightly heavier F500 weight and longer 121" track. This would certainly be attractive to some that already own an F500. John H.
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36+ Champs racing for the WC in 2012 ???

Postby Ski-DooRon » March 1st, 2011, 6:30 am

Hi John

I like your idea of getting more entries for the world championship race.The fact is they only take 12 to the feature in the wc and every other race venue I am aware of.If something like that were to be implemented I would think that their should be two sets of time trials to eliminate the sleds that are off the pace.Make the fastest time of the two runs work in the racers favor and eliminate a determined amount of sleds determined by their times, keeping the field to 32 sleds with 4 heats of eight sleds. It would give the teams another run to dial the sled in before the heats. I like the idea of the carb size determined by the weight.How would you come up with that,#25 lbs gives you another say 2mm?Also on the note of being off the pace, to avoid an unfortuate circumstance that happened in eganville this past weekend when the leader in the Champ Class on sunday came upon lapped traffic.Have the lapped flag in the hands of someone on the backstretch as well as the front stretch and the driver being given that flag heeding the line determined at the drivers meeting.I remember when hot laps were run and a slower sled was put in with the twins it was a little hectic coming upon them.Just some ideas..
on another note I have an alternate option I think should be available for your enclosed cockpit sled.Let the builders use what ever method of propelling the sled they want in terms of drive shaft location and gearing method.Give the builders a little creativity,if someone is going to build one that will not up the cost that tremendously.just some thoughts
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36+ Champs racing for the WC in 2012 ???

Postby proton » March 1st, 2011, 6:33 am

limited 500 one of, if not the fastest growing class in MIRA, went from 6 sleds last year to 13 sleds this year with more commitments for next year. For what ever reason F-500 has not caught on here....I like Hooper's expanded champ option.
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36+ Champs racing for the WC in 2012 ???

Postby tonyave » March 1st, 2011, 6:44 am

Seems to be some short memories here, but the Derby has a two tier system, it just hasn't been needed since the Formula One days. Thursdays time ins cut the field to teh top 36, then those 36 are seeded into a double elimination format held on sat.

Tony

PS, believe it or not in the late 80's and early 90's there was a lot of pressure to make the top 36.
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36+ Champs racing for the WC in 2012 ???

Postby cathouseenterprises » March 1st, 2011, 8:46 am

john.. up here in n minnesota troy pierce started a f340 x series.. take a look at his rules at troypierceracing.com very good rules for chassis with the indy chassis.a little more giving than the f500 rules..
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36+ Champs racing for the WC in 2012 ???

Postby Ski-DooRon » March 1st, 2011, 12:33 pm

Tony
You are right, my mistake about the derby not having a system set in place to eliminate sleds off the pace . I guess my theory is you do not need 36+ entries to put on a great show when only 12 will end up racing for the championship, I wonder how this race would fare with 3 or 4 rows of 8 sleds lining up for the feature? Eagle river is probably the only venue that would draw that number of sleds with all of the other organizations always leaving that date open for the WC.
Johns idea I believe would bring more champ sleds out on the track . Yes I believe you when you say there was a lot of pressure to make the top 36 back then when there were more than 36 entered.I was there once in 1994.
How was the snowmobiling down in NC this winter?I was working near Atlanta for awhile, you could of run a race sled on the streets there when they iced up. wonder what people would of thought:h

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