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Champ/Factory600/Outlaw600

Champ/Factory600/Outlaw600

Postby TomSkiDoo » April 28th, 2011, 5:23 am

Jeff,

I tend to agree, you are absolutely right !!

Unfortunately some people are like Hemorrhoids, they just never go away.

Tom
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Champ/Factory600/Outlaw600

Postby dimanche » April 28th, 2011, 7:07 am

Hi'm hagree wit Tom...hemmeroid is bugger for make go away (leave me halone tabarn@%$&!)
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Champ/Factory600/Outlaw600

Postby Bob Vehring » April 28th, 2011, 7:10 am

Interesting, I do notice a trend here where sometime people with different views are sometime just asked to FO

I have no desire to get on the bad side of anyone here, but as someone realitively new, that would like to see what were getting into, grow and get stronger, l'd have to say, of that list of 7 questions, I do wish people were willing to dicuss them so people like me could get a better idea of the politics involved in this sport. As some one from alot of different forms of racing, I do see some of those problems. Now maybe its my lach of understanding but also, just maybe, through some friendly conversation some of those thing could be improved on
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Champ/Factory600/Outlaw600

Postby kh550 » April 28th, 2011, 2:25 pm

I think 2tracks has a few valid points, even though the message delivery needs some work. In the sense that Champ sleds haven't identified with the colors and looks of OEM sleds, I think that the sport has lost out. But I think the real hurt on the sport had much more to do with the OEM's finding another venue that more closely connected to the products they actually sold.

IMO the introduction and rapid improvement in long travel snowmobile suspensions was a bigger cause. The evolution of the snowmobile lent itself much better to Snocross than on the ice. Was the problem the people, or was the problem that ice ovals were becoming increasingly irrelevant to sled makers and fans - especially younger ones?

The big thing that ice ovals still has that cannot be taken away is that it IS more fun and exciting to watch than slocross. For that reason, I think the sport still has a bright future if everyone works together.
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Champ/Factory600/Outlaw600

Postby Petawawarace » April 28th, 2011, 2:40 pm

I agree that he has SOME good points, but it is hard to see them through all the BS. I do believe that the factory 600 class will replace Champ. This will only happen if all 3 Manu's get involved. I do hope that rules are made to keep the racer in mind and not just feed the manu's. Things like engine year rules that don't make engines obsolete after 3 or 4 years will have to be managed well.
Lets face it, the 440's are a great engine, and they still will be for a few more years, but soon enough, the 600's will have to replace them and I think this class will be it. Stock motor rules with a basically open chassis to keep the true techies involved.

And I too think that the factories left because snowcross sleds were better suited for the way sleds were being made (thats obvious). I also think that our society has changed quite a bit, and less people are willing to travel, or go outside in the cold. Not to mention, you can watch just about anything online now.
DeJongMotorsports.com
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Champ/Factory600/Outlaw600

Postby lynxer » May 2nd, 2011, 8:31 am

[quote=2tracksnflatout][quote=Petawawarace][quote=2tracksnflatout]I know at least 25 people who used to drive hours for a day of watching exciting F1 TwinTrack racing. Today, they don't even bother starting up the car to drive to a race - for the lack of show. Stock appearing sleds WILL NOT draw spectators. Thats beating a dead horse. If people want spectators to show up, the show must feature something truly exotic, fast, thundering loud, with great drivers of star caliber, and close back-to-back racing.

If an organization were to put a modernized F1 Twin-Track race on for a Sunday afternoon, and a production based race at another location the same Sunday, each promoted the same, guaranteed the people show up to watch the F1 sleds, 10 fold.

The biggest challenge today in oval track is the loss of culture. Most don't have a reference point to compare how seriously pathetic the oval stuff is now.

Thanks for listening.[/quote]

Shawn.....Twin tracks are dead!!!!face it...people are trying to make the sport better, by actually doing something....like build sleds....not just talk and stir up $hit on the internet. Do everyone a favour and quit posting on here. I think I can speak for alot of the people viewing this board when I say it would be "10 fold" better if you were not posting.

Thanks for listening!!!![/quote]

# 1 reason oval track snowmobile racing is dying - CHAMP!!!
# 2 reason - Lack of leadership
# 3 reason - Lack of vision
# 4 reason - Lack of understanding what brings people to a race
# 5 reason - No International TV
# 6 reason - Lost professional culture in oval track racing
# 7 reason - Telling people with good ideas who try to help promote thought, to go away!

If you were on the up-date list you would be in the loop. Ever wonder why your not???

Oval track racing has lost so many great talented people over the years, that at one time made oval track what it once was - awesome! They did this through leadership, professionalism, vision and unity. Why did they leave? Because its thankless and the culture is ever more bashing towards people who have the knowledge and experience, that try and help. Many of these people are, guess where? Sno X!

Once a world class show, oval has turned into mainly club racing. I wonder why that is.[/quote]

# 1 reason oval track snowmobile racing is dying - CHAMP!!!
-Champ is an awesome race to watch you should try it sometime.
# 2 reason - Lack of leadership
-Look at all the leaders that have stepped up to the plate in the last few months! You think you are a leader? To be a leader you need to have followers. No one in their right mind would follow your bull****. No one wants to follow a person that can't accomplish anything, that can't agree with ANYONE and that can't keep their mouth shut. and then you won't accept ANYONE's ideas or feedback! Great leadership material ;) !
# 3 reason - Lack of vision
- OK I will give you this one. You definitly have vision. What ever that $hit is you are smoking would you please share?! It would be your best contribution to the snowmobile racing community yet!
# 4 reason - Lack of understanding what brings people to a race
- Do you understand anyone? My grandpa always told me "empathy" you should google it and follow the directions in the definition. Might work.
# 5 reason - No International TV
- Like you can make that happen?
# 6 reason - Lost professional culture in oval track racing
- I don't think there are many that will disagree with me, but your conduct on the internet is probably some of the most unprofessional, worst thought out, worst PR talent in the entire snowmobiling industry.
# 7 reason - Telling people with good ideas who try to help promote thought, to go away!
- You don't have a good idea, you don't help anyone, you don't try, and you don't promote anything so YES for the last time
[b]GO AWAY![/b]
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Champ/Factory600/Outlaw600

Postby Ovals Forever » May 2nd, 2011, 4:08 pm

I second that.
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Champ/Factory600/Outlaw600

Postby Bob Vehring » May 2nd, 2011, 4:59 pm

So vision it is.
Personal class preferance aside, what would it take to get some sponsors back and bring this up to the level of Snow X again?
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Champ/Factory600/Outlaw600

Postby PDRacing » May 3rd, 2011, 2:41 am

[quote=Bob Vehring]
Personal class preferance aside, what would it take to get some sponsors back and bring this up to the level of Snow X again?[/quote]

Bob, it's very simple set some standards and clean up our present act.

This Factory 600 class is the right direction, with rules set out by the sanctioning body, and the manufacturers this will hopefully
bring an image standard to which outside corps will be proud to associate their name to and thus advertise with the sport.

Cheers,

P.S. And make sure the potential advertisers/sponsors never see this site and half the inmature/unprofessional comments on it.
Richard Scroggs #13 EPT
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Champ/Factory600/Outlaw600

Postby that 31 car » May 3rd, 2011, 2:46 am

Bob: What it would take is lots of cash, manufacturer interest and support, and some legit TV.
Snow Cross got where it is by the formation of visionaries like Tim Berg and Jerry Dillion. Dillion was probably the finest man to ever promote any part of the sport, he had the formula, but through a series of business situations tended to lose the control of the operation. (I won't go there)Others like Duncan built off the X games deal, made it part of the process and capitalized on it. All the while this was going on, the manufacturers paid in some big numbers to be part of it. After a while, even though the manufacturers were the funding behind the deal, the association ran the operation, a bit of tail waggin dog, if you will. As sled numbers dropped in production, manufacturer interest and input dropped ($$$). Face it now we are producing about as many sleds jointly (4 manf.) as one good one did in the late 90's. Thus no money, thus the teams in Sx now (the 16 magic trailers) end up footing part of the bill to make it work. They too are a bit stuck as they have big time deals going, but no where to go play and show off, if they don't help.
Daniel has done a admirable job in getting the thing back on track, working to make it solvent, and still maintaining a top flite show.
John's approach is different, and not necessarily liked by all, but in face of whats out there, he is doing extremely well. Consider market, economy, etc. Essence is even SX is not what it used to be.
Ovals are actually flat, things like Hooper's deal can certainly help with numbers and fans, but until the country sells 175,000 sleds a year again, all of this will be an effort to maintain only. And maintain we must. Whether you like either idea or not, whether you like either guy or not, both ideas have merit. John's is a quick resolve, captures the rules in one place and don't let guys make rules from their garage which is what broke most of the other classes. Once this deal is up and running, if John has anything to do with it, expect a rules lock down for a long time. John has some marketing, and some sponsorship, but in my mind he will expect the racing community to carry the ball after a few seasons. Shawn's deal is more marketing, and plays off the more exotic. Shawn is selling the marketing and the tv package, using his beloved twin tracks as the platform. It too can work, but it faces the same obstacles that John's effort merits, only at different levels. Shawn's approach may be a bit different than some would like, but bless him for at least trying. Same goes for John. Dale Earnhardt said whether they are booing or cheering, at least they know your there, (when asked about the fans), I think the same applies here. Thanks for listening to the sermon, might not answer your question, but sometimes when your old, you just like to talk.
Regards
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