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Growing the Champ class

Growing the Champ class

Postby jhooper/HRE » March 21st, 2015, 8:23 am

We all know that Champ could use a few more competitors at most events. The question is, how do we make it happen?
When you look at the growth of F-500 compared to Champ in the past 5 years it's quite clear that cost is likely a HUGE factor.
NO, I am not proposing any changes to the current Champ rules!
I am proposing a 2nd OPTION for a less expensive Champ sled that would be allowed to compete in the current Champ class.
Lets call this "proposed lower dollar sled" Option-B
This sled would follow all current Champ Rules except the following changes:
#1- 116 inch min. track length, NO SOFT RUBBER TRACKS!!
#2- Absolutely no titanium or carbon fibre anywhere on the sled
#3- no belt drives, chains and gears only.
#4- 385 lbs. min weight
#5- 36mm mikuni round slide carbs to offset difference in weight and rotating weight {only about 2-3hp difference}
with my 30 years of building chassis and engines I firmly believe these 2 Champ sleds would be quite equal, with maybe a tiny advantage to the Original Champ.

OK guys, tell me why this won't work to encourage a few lower dollar teams to try Champ racing. John Hooper
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Re: Growing the Champ class

Postby Mr.Pipe » March 21st, 2015, 10:18 am

John, because I'm not up to date on what tracks are available...I'm assuming there is no 116 X 13.5 that would qualify? this would be a 116 X 15 wide R series track?
There is no doubt that the current 106 tracks are a huge pain in the butt, and wallet in the current Champ class.
Have you dyno tested a Champ engine with 36's to see what difference it made?
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Re: Growing the Champ class

Postby ice_racer_69 » March 21st, 2015, 4:32 pm

Not to jack your thread but here is an idea for a class I have been thinking about:

Pro 600

Stock Chassis- stock hood, belly pan, windshield, panels, etc... any seat, any fuel tank, battery operated taillight, may offset handlebar post without modifcation of chassis components

stock motor, pipe, ignition, drive, etc? (open silencer/stinger for noise factor)

motor must match chassis

open front suspension rules- must maintain stock mounting points

open rear suspension -116" track min

no exotics (ie titanium, magnesium, carbon fiber, unobtanium, etc)

Maybe a class like this could get the casual spectator to say "Hey there's my sled!"

and the factories and dealerships to say "Hey there's our sled"

engine builders may not like this class, but engine blueprinters will!

the engineers/welders/fabricators will still have to build front and rear suspensions as well tanks, etc.

Speeds should be comparable to champ right now?

Questions/Comments/Concerns/Ideas? Fire Away!
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Re: Growing the Champ class

Postby 14x » March 21st, 2015, 5:30 pm

How was the turn out of champ lites? I thought that was the inexpensive champ route? Not against something else as in the future of like to pilot one
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Re: Growing the Champ class

Postby Spy-Guy 74 » March 21st, 2015, 5:53 pm

John my only question is do you believe you could get option B passed for the next race season or is this something down the road? Most venues outside of the TLR Cup Series need more champ entries at this time for sure. Sort of wondering what the teams involved in champ racing now think of this proposal too.
Spy-Guy 74
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Re: Growing the Champ class

Postby Greg Bihner » March 21st, 2015, 6:39 pm

In my opinion The V-Force Pro-lite class is the class of the future. It was the best thing to ever happen to our team. The Pro-Lite sleds are very close to champ speeds with the same handling. The stock based motors are very easy to tune and reliable. I used 3 different jets all season. I had $1000 in my entire motor. The combined weight rule I think was a good thing, but kind of a none factor for us. We had the heaviest sled and heaviest rider in the class and had good success. So you don't need the best of the best to compete in this class. This class allows the use of older champ sleds ours was a 2009. The 106 tracks are an expensive pain but I guess part of the game. Thanks again John for getting this class off the ground and thanks to V-Force for supporting the series.

Greg Bihner
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Re: Growing the Champ class

Postby fast dad » March 21st, 2015, 7:19 pm

I am sure that Jerry will be on here and I would like to ask him what the average entries where for Champ-Champ Lite and F 500 for each race?

For all of you who say that Champ racing is to expensive, just look at who won the ERWC and TRL Cup!! 2008 Wahl Chassis a older Rugland Rotax!!! It is not always about the money, more or less just a excuse to me....The real Champ issue is that to competition is very high and the caliber of riders and tuners can only be found in Champ...Most of these guys have been racing snowmobiles since the 70-80s and every team has a VERY experience tuner...Just not that many out there....

Greg your boy did a great job all season in Champ Lite, but do you think you can compete against the top guys week in and week out?? Riding wise I am sure he can, but can you get your sled to optimum performance every week?? There in lies the issue....Greg your kid is more than ready for Champ, so next year he needs to move up, correct??? Are you guys going to move up to Champ??? You have all the parts, sleds, clutches, belts needed already just need a set of cylinders and pipes...

Sleds, motors, titanium, carbon fiber are not the issue it is right people needed...don't know how you fix that??

[b]fast dad[/b]
fast dad
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Re: Growing the Champ class

Postby Greg Bihner » March 21st, 2015, 9:41 pm

Thanks for compliment TJ. We raced in pro champ the year before. Spent a boat load of money trying to compete. So no not going to pro champ been there done that. Which is ok. Not all teams are cut out to be in pro champ or want to be in pro champ. That's why I think the Pro-lite class is a good option for a lot of teams. We learned a ton about chassis set up, clutching and gearing this year because the motor always ran good. It did help to have good input from my driver. Really hope to see it continue.
Greg Bihner
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Location: Oakdale MN

Re: Growing the Champ class

Postby proton » March 22nd, 2015, 8:56 am

Fantastic idea John, I was hoping you would start a thread on this very subject, ... the ti studs, short tracks and carbon on the sleds do absolutely nothing for the show.....let's move on this for the good of the sport.
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Re: Growing the Champ class

Postby Twister89 » March 22nd, 2015, 9:21 am

I like the 116 track idea $1000 bucks for a track unclipped that lasts maybe half a season is nuts. Maybe 116 track that has to be 15 wide? No titanium drive shaft, jackshaft, and studs. Carbon doesnt matter if somebody wants to spend the money on a hood that will last through crash after crash that doesnt matter. And like john said with the longer track bump the weight to 385. and spec fuel and oil for sure! get some sponsor dollars from the fuel and oil company.... just thoughts.....
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