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AND YET ANOTHER RUMOR...

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AND YET ANOTHER RUMOR...

Postby Lynn Keillor » November 15th, 2001, 3:58 am

I have a copy of the EPA study in front of me. It's a meaty document, and though it's full of stats, sometimes it's hard to find specific information.

Overall, the study regards three general engine types: recreational vehicles (including us, ATVs, off-road bikes...), diesel marine engines and large industrial spark ignition machines (such as forklifts and farm equipment). The study states that these engines account for 13 percent of hydrocarbon emissions, 6 percent of carbon monoxide emissions and 3 percent of nitrogen oxide (NOx) emissions. The ozone-forming NOx emissions from snowmobile are nearly non-existant (it won't form in cold weather), so disregard that figure for sleds.

I couldn't find any further breakdowns, but that doesn't mean they don't exist.

I do have some really general stats on projected emission levels. According to the EPA study, if nothing changes (and accouting for increased machine sales, etc.) snowmobiles in 2010 will emit 567 thousand short tons of CO and 213 thousand short tons of HC. With the proposed regulations, in 2010, they predict snowmobile will produce 415 thousand short tons (27 percent reduction) and 155 thousand short tons of HC (27 percent reduction).

Curiously enough, on that same chart, the industrial engines would undergo the most significant reductions (56 percent in CO, 62 percent in NOx and 62 percent in HC).

It may be a leap to say that the industrial engines play a rather large part in the initial emisssions percentages I gave.

If your curious, the document is at www.epa.gov/otag.
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AND YET ANOTHER RUMOR...

Postby ArcticEd » November 15th, 2001, 4:12 am

I'm sure that the EPA report is based on absolute incontrovertable fact, Lynn. R I G H T !!!!! Mark Twain once said, "There are lies, d**n lies, and statistics....." Not to dilute any of the vailidity of your post, as these statistics are the root of future legislation, but considering the evidence used in the Yellowstone debacle, I question the validity of ANYTHING presented by the EPA.............
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AND YET ANOTHER RUMOR...

Postby Da Husky » November 15th, 2001, 5:10 am

A couple of comments on some of the latest posts on this topic.

Lynn, with regrard to 2-stroke Nox production. Nox is produced as a result of high combustion temperatures. Two-strokes have relatively low combustion temperatures as result of 25-30% of the unburnt fuel passing out of the exhaust, (additional coolant). Added to the fact that Nox is fairly non-toxic in cold weather, as you stated,there is no present concern over Nox. Once the manufacturers start producing high compression four-strokes, then the Nox issue will be a little higher priority.

Second, the smokey haze that snowmobiles are most looked down upon is actually the least toxic part about the snowmobile. The smoke is called particulate and is a result of the oil that is being burned in the engine. Although the particulate is not good (Lori Fussel's research), it is of little concern compared to the Hydrocarbons(HC's) and carbon monoxide(CO's) that are being produced. Hc's and co attack your resperatory system and don't allow oxygen to flow into your blood stream. The reason why the people at the yellowstone gates had so many headache problems. This is all stated in the EPA release, and is all fairly accurate. Have you ever heard of some one passing out, or at least having bad headaches, because their car exhaust is leaking into the cab. Same concept, only snowmobiles produce approximatly 95% more hc's and co's.

As far as technology snowmobile companys use, I agree with everybody. Over time snowmobile manufacturers will utilize other technologies that other industries have used. Although, snowmobile manufacturers have to deal with some tough elements. Their products have to start and run in some of the harshest environmental and physical conditions, and often. The average snomwobile owner wants to be able to work on their own sled, how many of you can easily modify your car, or your optimax (Mercury's DI two stroke), or some of the newer motorcycles, or even your Ski Doo with its security features. Add that to the fact that snowmobiles are expected to be priced at a certain level and that level depicts the "performance" you are paying for.

That's my two cents. I hate to see things change, I love my two-stroke, but you can't be afraid of change otherwise you become that grumpy old person constantly complaining how things were so much better in their day. It should all be very interesting.
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Making things work that most thought wouldn't (most of the time;)
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AND YET ANOTHER RUMOR...

Postby ArcticEd » November 15th, 2001, 5:19 am

After reading some of these posts, I suddenly feel intelectually inadequate............LOL
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AND YET ANOTHER RUMOR...

Postby BANDITS SRX » November 15th, 2001, 7:47 am

good post Da Husky, The only comment I have is that I would take a Yamaha 225HP V6 Four Stroke Outboard over the Mercury DI system. Some people think that when you say four stroke it means low power. This is not true and until you use the higher output 4-stroke you just won't know. Just ride a R6 and tell me that it has poor performance.
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AND YET ANOTHER RUMOR...

Postby snoduke » November 16th, 2001, 4:32 pm

check out this web site: green-watch.com/home.htm
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