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F500 after a season

F500 after a season

Postby AHF928 » March 9th, 2006, 2:56 am

What did everyone think of the class that raced or built a sled? What worked and what needs addressing?

As a builder the only thing I would suggest is to allow the engines to be lowered so more hood options would work without lots of body work. Do not allow a change in center distance, just lower them to allow more hoods to work.


Any other suggestions or comments before the ISR meeting?
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F500 after a season

Postby Petawawarace » March 9th, 2006, 4:19 am

I'm bringing a stop watch with me this weekend, and I'm going to time the sprint sleds and get someone to time us. It would be worth looking at to see if possibly the 500's would be allowed to run with them. The reason being that atleast for myself,and I know the guys from the states travel on their own, a 5-10 drive each way is a long haul to run some hotlaps and ONE race. Obviously if the numbers are big enough at each race, they will have to run a heat. But just to get a little more track time and a few more laps for your buck.

As well, some other tech issues. I know it doesn't happen often, but when you do need to replace pistons on these things, your looking at almost 200 for bare pistons(CDN) The same deal with the head and base gaskets. For my friends 99 mxz a head gasket is somewhere around 20, where we are upwards of 50 a gasket. And I know there were problems getting them this year. We'd have to do some research, but if we could find a good aftermarket supplier(for pistons and gaskets) could we name a specific part number to use like we did with the shocks?
I agree about the engine lowering thing, but is that going to make things more complicated for someone who has never built a sled before? Its worth looking at for sure, If we could fit the champ hoods on, I know for one I'd be buying one for next year.
Jeff
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F500 after a season

Postby eab142racer » March 9th, 2006, 9:24 am

Just as a reference, Sprint sleds were hitting around 92 MPH at CPTC
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F500 after a season

Postby that 31 car » March 9th, 2006, 1:39 pm

Augie:
I did a meeting with our guys after the Antigo race. I have a report to send to John concerning it. I held back on the report simply because John's team suffered some serious issues during the Valcourt event that deserve more attention than class rules. As Kenny progresses, I will forward to John. Continue to get well Kenny.

As to our discussion, spec gaskets and spec pistons are a high point, we do need affordable parts for the old girls. But I strongly feel we neeed topick one manufacturer that offers them and spec what part # is to be used. At Eagle I checked Polaris and Aftermarket gaskets compressed and uncompressed, and there are differences. Doug Fontaine was present so he can verify that there are indeed differences.

Pistons, pick one and go with it, Wiseco, somebody else, I don't care but only one.

Weight, weight should be 400, we bounced several this year on weight at less than 415. The midwest guys hear that out east you guys run at 400, but we never were officially informed to go to 400 so we stayed at 415. This forum is not the official rules site, if rules are changed, all circuits must stay in the loop.

Sorry, but don't lower the engine. So what if hood fit is a problem. Only old guys like us know why we want the motor lower, and it ain't hood fit.

It should only be for new guys, I know this is hard to do, but in order to start a class you have to let accomplished riders in. That was done this year, but it makes it harder for real new guys to build and compete. I don't have an answer, just a observation.

Front ends, need some help on the outside front, camber changes, etc, cause failures. Reinforcing is needed. Too many incidents caused by front end issues.

Let in the same year 400 chassis, but with 500 motors. Seems that although Polaris built a ton of them (500's) they are now hard to find. The 400 chassis from the same years is virtually identical.
Do not let 400 motors in though, stay with 500's for some reason, engines can be found it's just the 88-92 chassis that dissapeared.
More attention to brakes, masters mounted tipped, welded up handles, handles that hit the bar before the brake is fully engaged. Stuff like that. We had to school several guys during safety inspection, but I will say all complied with our requests.

I'm sure this will start the forum a buzzing, but I guess thats what it's for.
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F500 after a season

Postby Fontaine Racing » March 9th, 2006, 4:11 pm

Hi Guys
good to see the interest in the F500 class! it sounds like there are a few sleds out there being built yet? I did talk with some interested people at BJ. we brought the announcer a little info. on the class, she did a great job explaining the class and told anyone interested to stop by our trailer, which did get a couple people over to talk about it.I think the announcers can help us a lot. by explaining this class and the reason it was started? I also talked with people that race in the class , they talked about building a couple more and liked the class but were disappointed at the payback. which is second guessing them on building more. I personally agree with them! I don't expect to make money racing but checks are better than plaques!!!! I wouldn't mind seeing it structured like a semi pro class? (entry fee and payback) what do you guys think?
Jeff I also know what you mean about wanting more ice time? we did run our F500 in the sportsman 600 class, and also in the sprint class. these sleds are very close. but I don't think that is the answer, not everyone was happy to see us run there class! I think if we keep this class going like it is. we will get more time to race with more F500s (round robin)?
as for the rules. I have to go with guys like SPY GUY and Jerry. don't change too much too fast! although the piston and gasket thing might be an issue? not just for cost ,but availability. we still have our used head gasket in from Eagle river because they are still backordered. and that breaker bar I used to tighten the head stopped the leak! I would be open to let a guy like John amend these rules. Jerry sorry that the weight thing didn't get passed on to you better. at Eagle, our sled weighed 409 whe we did a pre tech. John looked at or sled, noting that the weight rule should be amended to 400 lbs. note if you build one of these sleds you should check you weight because if you try to shave pounds I'm betting you could go under 400
also Jerry makes good points on the chassis, use what falls into that era !
Augie I have to agree. the biggest challenge building this sled was getting a hood on it. I think we can spend more time over ther the summer to get a better lower hood setup, but I have to agree with leaving the motor were it is this will be complicated to most builders, hard to regulate, and the pipe will still the biggest obstacle to work around? keep the thoughts coming and hopefully we can get Johns input?
and A big thanks to John Hooper for all his help!! he has done a great thing for our sport! I would bet the F500 has put more posts on this site than any other class this season? KEEP TALKING !!
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F500 after a season

Postby jhooper/HRE » March 10th, 2006, 3:35 am

I think this first season was a big success, We have 10 sleds in the east and around 8 in the west {total of 18 and more being built}.
We do have a few small issues:
#1- I am doing some research on aftermarket pistons & gaskets, I will post my findings, I agree with Jerry, we need to spec. only one aftermarket option and I will make sure the aftermarket option is not an advantage over oem.
#2- The weight rule should officially be changed to 400 lbs.{and then be "carved in stone"}, it is easy to get there without spending extra time or money, a lot of the guys are needing to add weight or run full tanks to stay above 415 lbs.

Strength issues on the right front should not be an issue, the rules already allow for reinforcing.

I also agree with Jerry on allowing a few more chassis in but we must be CERTAIN they are the same mechanicly.
Lowering the engine would make hood fitting easier but it is easier for a rookie to modify the hood rather than move the engine so I think we should leave it.

Here in the East I am going to push for semi-pro and pro classes for these sleds, it is already one of our better classes and will certainly grow, especially if guys have 2 classes.
The PRO class would not be subject to the claim rule. John H.

Sorry I have dropped the ball {temporarily} on the contingency certificates, I will get a list of drivers from USSA & PRO-ICE and make sure these certificates get mailed out, there is a total of $200 worth for each race weekend.
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F500 after a season

Postby xltwanab » March 10th, 2006, 3:51 am

John, how would the semi-pro be determined? I agree with you on the weight being set at 400#. I understand that a few guys got DQ'd this year for being between 400 and 425.
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F500 after a season

Postby jhooper/HRE » March 10th, 2006, 4:10 am

Same as the other classes, the board of directors would decide who needs to move to pro only.
We MUST keep this class well within the reach of new drivers so it is important to force dominant drivers out but If we don't have a pro class to move into where would they go?
It would be unfair to force guys to buy a different sled for another class and I am sure we would loose most of them.
PRO F-500 is a perfect class for experienced racers who want to stay involved without the time and money involved in most other classes and hopefully they would let another rookie run thier sled in the semi-pro class {more new drivers} John H.
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F500 after a season

Postby AHF928 » March 10th, 2006, 4:44 am

I hope we can get a few aftermarket piston and ring setups OK'd. I personally hate the Weisco and would prefer Lemans, but either is much cheaper than Polaris. Gaskets should be a single source. Pick one we can all get easily and spec it.

As far as trailing arms, I agree with John, the rules allow adding material etc to strengthen them, maybe make that mandatory?

We did have guys who did not make weight so I say make it 400. We were at 409 with a full stock seat, hood and belly pan so getting too light by accident would be easy.

Here in the East we are a full payback class already so thats not an issue.

Having a Pro level would be good 2 ways. The new drivers could opt to run it for track time and some more experienced drivers could race without being "Cherry pickers".

Set the rules for who is Pro/Semi Pro in advance, no picking later. Beginners are beginners and most circuit regulars who have been at it for a season or 2 will be way ahead of them in technical skill and driving ability.

Pro: Any driver who has finished with season points in the top 3, except Juniors, in the last 3 years in any ISR affiliated circuit. Any Present Pro Stock, Sprint,Semi-Pro Champ or Pro Champ driver regardless of finishes.

Semi-Pro: Everyone else (even the top 3 F500 Semi Pros could stay down for 3 seasons)

We may sell our sled and build another as long as the buyer promises to race it full time.

I hope the growth continues with others doing the same.
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F500 after a season

Postby AHF928 » March 10th, 2006, 4:50 am

PS, I really want to lower the engine for hood fit ;)
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