Subscribe Today

Everyone's Thoughts on Class Proposals 2011 and Beyond

Everyone's Thoughts on Class Proposals 2011 and Beyond

Postby Spy-Guy 74 » April 28th, 2008, 3:50 pm

First off even if you do differ, lets try not to make this into a slug fest. The point is to make things better and go in the correct direction to build oval ice racing in the future.

Formula 600 Class 2011 and Beyond

Stock 600cc motor with set of pipes

This is just my opinion, I don't really like to see the elite oval class go to a stock engine. Reason number one is the teams close to the manufactures will have a better stock engine than say a team without factory involment and really give some of the elite teams a bigger advantage than they have now. Reason number two the extra time it will take in tech, thirty sleds going through tech in Eagle River all taking a cylinder and head off doesn't appeal much to me. Remember it's only my opinion, but I'm interested in what everyone else thinks and really what everyone else has to say about other class changes too!! Post your thoughts and why you lean in that direction.

Greg Peterson
Spy-Guy 74
Member
 
Posts: 317
Joined: July 25th, 2003, 11:38 am
Location: Almost in Canada, MN

Everyone's Thoughts on Class Proposals 2011 and Beyond

Postby that 31 car » April 28th, 2008, 8:37 pm

Greg:
Was this proposed at the ER meeting?
I know you spoke to me about it, but I don't see the concept in Chuck's proposal. His 600 Open is mod motor, multi pipe, unless I am reading something different than you are. Or perhaps the conversation at Eagle was different than the written document. Enlighten me.
Korinek
that 31 car
Member
 
Posts: 82
Joined: February 15th, 2002, 9:06 am
Location: Next to the big swamp. Menchalville, WI.

Everyone's Thoughts on Class Proposals 2011 and Beyond

Postby Spy-Guy 74 » April 29th, 2008, 12:24 am

Jerry it's on the very last page of the proposals at the Eagle River Meeting. It is what is proposed when Formula 600 takes over for Champ 440 as the elite class in oval racing. It was mentioned it maybe would make running in that class cheaper for the racer. I tend to dis-agree, anyone with a dyno will be using it to a greater degree than now, instead of having two or three sets of pipes in the shop we'll have closer to 12 or fifteen sets if you really want to run with the big boys up front.
If the big blue team jumps into this class, which is hoped for in the future to bring all four manufactures on board. Picture this, you and I in the tech shack in Eagle River, you just took a cylinder and head off the top of my sled to see if I was cheating. Than the fellow with the four stroker goes out the door, without getting tore down. Rest assured NO one else will want to be in the tech shack, my fuse is very short and by now it's sizzling and your about to get a earfull.
My proposal when champ 440 isn't the elite class, is to have mod 600 engines , with pipes, and if speeds are to high we can always restrict them in some way. Another option is everyone still makes a 500 engine except Yamaha and we could use that engine for the class. With 34mm round slides the difference in the speeds we have now would be minimal.
Greg Peterson
Spy-Guy 74
Member
 
Posts: 317
Joined: July 25th, 2003, 11:38 am
Location: Almost in Canada, MN


Everyone's Thoughts on Class Proposals 2011 and Beyond

Postby WAVEY DOG #26 OSRF » April 29th, 2008, 12:35 am

I remember when I was around, the feeling was on the Eastern Pro Tour (Marcel and Rob Dutton) was that they want to keep the speeds close to where they were near 100mph. That's why the E.P.T does not have a 600cc Champ Class. I would think a stock 600cc Champ sled with a set of pipes would be plenty fast enough.
I am assuming that the manufactures are stopping production of the 440's and this is why there is a change? I would caution everyone on too much change and who it will effect. Will you lose the dedicated stock racers you have now if you make a change to the stock class? What about the teams that have the oval front ends and rear suspensions how are they going to be affected? How will this affect the after market company's that are keeping this sport of oval sprint racing going with new products and new Champ sleds? I agree the sport needs change to bring more people into the sport. I was hoping we could do it with a non-conflicting schedule, and larger and better shows. You guy's that were at the meeting know more than I do about what was said but you asked for a non controversial opinion, and there's mine.
Another reason for making a non controversial opinion is, if I ever get back to the US and sponsor a sled I don't want Jerry to send me through tech and tear me all apart, like that other guy!!! Just Kidding!!!! Dave
DAVID RIEMENSCHNEIDER
WAVEY DOG #26 OSRF
Member
 
Posts: 78
Joined: March 7th, 2002, 7:42 am
Location: Davisburg, Michigan

Everyone's Thoughts on Class Proposals 2011 and Beyond

Postby Fontaine Racing » April 29th, 2008, 1:48 am

Greg
Thanks for starting this post!
I am glad to see the people that have seen it all! giving us some input.
I am interested to hear what Jerry and Dave think of the stock proposal?
and the class structure. do you guys think we have too many classes over here?
Thanks
Fontaine Racing
Member
 
Posts: 56
Joined: March 18th, 2005, 10:01 am
Location: webster wisconsin

Everyone's Thoughts on Class Proposals 2011 and Beyond

Postby mbenoy119 » April 29th, 2008, 1:56 am

I think a serious race team would spend more money on a stock motor than you would on a mod. I've seen it in other venues. I understand the intent but would sooner see 500 mods instead of 600 stockers and that is without even mentioning the tech nightmare
mbenoy119
Member
 
Posts: 768
Joined: January 16th, 2005, 9:06 pm
Location: On the Tee box

Everyone's Thoughts on Class Proposals 2011 and Beyond

Postby proton » April 29th, 2008, 2:34 am

Going to a 600 stock engine with pipes for the champ shouldn't be viewed as a cost saving tool, only a speed regulating device....the racers will still spend thousands for a stock engine like they will for a mod. Its the speed that has got people looking into different engine formulas.

I wouldn't change a lot in champ, if the engine supply dries up then consider the options...as for changing to 500cc, over in MI, some of the engines I see on my dyno are for summer dirt cars that use 500cc sno-mo engine in full mod....with twin pipes and 38mm carbs they are making 130-133hp!

If change is needed, go to a 340cc 2-stroke/500cc 4-stroke engine formula and use the bottom end of a stock engine, let the aftermarket guys make 340cc top end...it will keep the speeds down and involve the aftermarket people. keep the factory looking hoods to help identify with the consumers sleds.

Dantuma
MIRA
proton
Member
 
Posts: 97
Joined: January 18th, 2004, 2:28 pm
Location: USA

Everyone's Thoughts on Class Proposals 2011 and Beyond

Postby CDecker04 » April 29th, 2008, 4:30 am

first I want to thank every one that attended the meeting here in eagle river. I also want to apologize for not being here, the weekend was open untill a schedueld pratice was postponed to that weekend, and with 4 drivers and 6 race karts we need all the track time we can get. I was told the meeting was a good meeting. Todd and I spent alot of time going over proposed changes that were presented at the meeting so as to present them accuretly. However after reading the above posts I see one was not,that was the one about a stock based engine for formula 600 open. Jerry K. was correct,my intent was to use a current stock based 600 engine, however it would be open mod but restricted by some means to keep the speeds in check. Once again thanks to all who attended and sorry for the confussion. Chuck Decker
CDecker04
 
Joined: December 4th, 2007, 2:31 am
Location: Eagle River WI

Everyone's Thoughts on Class Proposals 2011 and Beyond

Postby Spy-Guy 74 » April 29th, 2008, 5:48 am

Chuck thanks for the clarification, I like that way better than a stock engine. On another note, Jerry and I won't butt heads in tech if thats the case. Or at least I hope not!! Thanks for having the meeting in Eagle River to.
Spy-Guy 74
Member
 
Posts: 317
Joined: July 25th, 2003, 11:38 am
Location: Almost in Canada, MN

Everyone's Thoughts on Class Proposals 2011 and Beyond

Postby Driver29NE » April 29th, 2008, 3:28 pm

I don't think it makes much sense to have a fully modified 600 and then try to restrict it to keep speeds down. I think the stock 600 with some add-ons then maybe a carb rule would make the class more affordable and more important, MORE COMPETITIVE. Right now the noise and the speed make this class exciting, we need to tighten the gap between FIRST PLACE and TENTH PLACE to make the RACES more exciting. There are alot of things you could do to come up with a good set of rules for this engine. The manufactures would like to see them out there. I thought the old CHAMP-LITE was agood class and I don't see why it couldn't work with 600's as the PREMIERE CLASS in oval racing. Some of the best races I've ever watched were in the stock classes,Just some of my thoughts. THANKS Philip
Driver29NE
 
Posts: 4
Joined: February 5th, 2003, 9:49 pm
Location: Baldwinville, MA

Next

Return to Ovals & Enduros

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

cron